Auto-industry bailout.

[Less Than Liz]

I don't think this topic really needs any introduction. I'm mostly curious about your reactions to it and thoughts on it. Personally I think it's crap, and find it weird that so many people who were against the financial sector bailout are suddenly rallying for an auto-industry bailout.

[charolastra00]

Because the auto-industry is made up of "real Americans", not the elitist scum on Wallstreet. Jesus, Liz, you'd think you were anti-American or something!

[LagDragon]

lol @ America

[Polygon]

The difference here is that banks cannot file for bankruptcy and continue to operate. Not to mention that the failure was just too large. Then again, that's not what we're talking about.

I'm a gear head and I love cars but the main problem with the big three are that they can't compete with their competitors. Granted, there are other issues, but I'll focus on this one first. This issue stems from the unions. They are paying people $30+/hour to tighten screws and sit around. Also, those union workers have pretty fat retirement plans, levels that I would call absurd. Lastly, if they get laid off they get 95% of their original wages. For how long, I don't know. All of that amounts to Chrysler, GM, and Ford losing approximately $5,000 per car.

Now, that fits in with the bailout in that if we bail them out we're doing nothing more than giving someone Aspirin for broken legs. They need to liquidate the unions to fix their issues and the only way they can do it is file for bankruptcy. Now, the people against this cry out that these companies will founder if we do. That's where the bank bailout reference comes in. Why would these "companies" founder? As I recall most of the airline industry had to file for bankruptcy. That industry seems to be doing alright currently. If they're concerned about people losing jobs, I'm sure the other auto manufactures in the states would be willing to hire them when they suddenly have more demand if the three were to disappear which isn't likely.

That being said, they shouldn't be asking for money when they seem to throw it away like they do. Also, they do have other, but slightly more minor issues as there are morons who will buy their car regardless. Anyhow, here are my other complaints.

# The financial divisions.
# Auto credit markets frozen.
# All three need to cut the fat, too many models.
# Execs need to take a pay cut.
# Quality issues.
# Poor engineering.
# Poor design.

Cliffs notes: Hell no, we don't need to bail them out.

[LunarGriever]

I wish there was a way for the government to insure the worker's pensions and such, I don't think it's fair that so many people are going to suffer due to the very bad decisions of a few.

That being said, I say fuck em.

These guys should have seen the writing on the wall 10 years ago. They knew they were operating on obsolete business models, yet they did nothing to fix it.

Even now all I see is how tragically out of touch the leaders of these companies are and yet despite their past failures we are all suppose to believe that they finally got their shit together? Bull.

Unforchunetly I think we have to let them go. Maybe then we will finally see some true innovation as they struggle to come back.

[Contagion]

Why should they get a bailout when the CEOs can just sell their personal jets to get back on track??

[Sibek]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=1

Michigan has relied on the Auto industry for way too long. For a state with two of the largest Universities in the United States (Michigan and Michigan State), to see so much skilled labor leave the state because of a dying manufacturing sector is just silly to me. The companies have spent way too much time playing second fiddle to the japanese and cutting costs (and quality) to compete has finally made consumers realize that American cars aren't all that great anymore. Granted they weren't all that great without the competition either.

[freeflow^]

I sucks because the bailout enables the auto industry to keep doing what have been for years. It's like people forgot that GM Dodge and Ford were all losing a shit load of money before the bail out. Yay to stalled environmental progression. Spending that much money on the private sector is retarded IMO... It's like fuckin eh free competition but when we build shit cars (in comparison to Japanese or Korean) print money and raise the national debt/inflation! Consumer purchasing has yet to go down substantially, but the gov is scared of going into a bigger recession.

[Mary]

Honestly I'm a little split on this issue. While I'd like to say I'm completely against the bailout, I also am worried and scared of what will happen to the economy if all the people the companies employ are suddenly out of a job, even temporarily.

Now, if the bailout were to pass I definitely don't think a new chunk of money should be set aside for it. If they're going to bail out the "big 3" take from the $600 billion already set aside for the financial sector. It should also be required the companies pay back the money in a set period of time plus interest. In order for the companies to get the bailout I think unions should be forced to either disband or at least be forced to renegotiate contracts for less worker pay and benefits. Pay and benefits that are a little more on level with workers in other car companies in the country. Companies like Toyota and Kia have managed to keep unions at bay for a reason.(I personally think unions are outdated but that’s a different debate completely) Also an investigation into who has been managing the companies so badly should be made and many people fired. Not big bonus when they leave, just a flat out firing for doing a crap job. Basically I think in order to get the bailout, companies need a plan on how they will use the money to turn the companies around and start making profit.

There are more reasons I think the bailout shouldn’t be passed though. A big one is it just doesn’t seem fair to bail out car companies that have been mismanaged and obviously can’t compete in the market when there are many companies who can compete and have been making profit. The big three filing bankruptcy will give these companies a chance to expand and maybe even allow new companies with more desirable products to enter the market. Also a bailout will force the companies to be completely reconstructed which they obviously need if they’re so badly in debt.

Here is a great article that presented a side to the bailout I never thought about. It’s definitely worth a read: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27806336/

[DrunkSwashbuckler]

These companies are going to go bankrupt sooner or later; we may as well throw those billions of dollars into a shredder.

[jerubal]

A couple of big businesses over here died last week. I think I was listening to Radio 4 when they mentioned it, and they made a fairly astute point on the demise of these brands from our childhood: It's the government's job to provide a level and fertile environment for business... it's not their job to keep lame ducks afloat.

I have no real opinion on any of it. I take little interest in commerce, really.. much less what's happening in the US. I do have a vaguely uninformed opinion on the whole bank thing happening here, and that is: What the fuck!? Do bankers have any idea what their fucking job is!?

Meih... people, money, power... let them stay where it gets them, that's my general view. I put stakes in things that actually matter. They can keep their illusions of control.