Final Fantasy...the best series?

[Sushi_b]

How do you feel about the Final Fantasy series past and present? Would you rate it as the top series ever or not?

I know for myself I've tried many times to get into the series and own a variety of games but never felt compelled enough to finish a single one of them. I can't explain why but I always get extremely bored with them and don't want to continue. Final Fantasy (NES) and FF VII are the closest I've ever gotten to finishing one in the series but it never happened.

What are your thoughts on what is arguably the most popular RPG series?

[Matron]

I don't know if I'd say best series, because there are a lot of series that I haven't played at all. I do know that the FF series is one of the few where I enjoy just about every one I play, have beat them all, and the latter ones (6-12) more than once. The only other series that sucks me in so deeply is the Suikoden series, and I always waffle on which ones I like best, depending on which one I'm playing at the time.

[Atlas]

Yes, I would agree with this right off of the bat for a couple of reasons:

1. Longevity
2. Consistency of quality
3. Revolutionary


One thing is for sure, it's definitely the most popular.

Each separate game, of course, offers something different.

[Mark]

I would agree with Blue. but there are alot of series that I am very much crazy about, The Disgaea series for one, and also the star ocean as well...its just a shame that there are not more out by now. I can't wait till SO4 comes out though.

[Evil]

I'm more of a fan of the Suikoden series (But I still love Final Fantasy), but I'd definitely agree that Final Fantasy is the most prolific RPG series out there.

[Atlas]

I would agree with Blue.



Blue? When did Blue post in here...?

[LagDragon]

I love Final Fantasy. They're easily some of the best games I've ever played. My top 3 include Tactics, X and VI/IX/XII. Those are the three that rotate as one of my absolute favourites because it's hard and depends on which one I've played most recently.

Final Fantasy XIII is the biggest reason I'll be getting a PS3 in the future.

[Mark]

Blue? When did Blue post in here...?

he didn't, just keeping you in check to see if anyone was paying attention. :p

Altas Passes!

[Temporal Distortion]

XII was awesome. Ring of Fates was impressive. Everything else that's been released lately blew ass.

Same thing in the past, hit and miss. There were some gems, too, so I'm leaning more towards the positive outlook.

[Matron]

Wow TD, long time no see!

I've been pleasantly surprised by how much fun Crisis Core is, but I haven't had much time to spend on RoF yet.

[Phakiel]

Objectively, it is the best series overall. Its the longest and more broadly liked as DW/DQ is only big in Japan, mostly due to the lack of games for the western market compared to FF.

However, the way I see it, FF lacks substance. Its the same old blockbuster vs indie film. I may enjoy things like Spiderman but movies like that only fill you up for a quick fix, I much more enjoy things like Hedwig and the Angry Inch.

And at the lack of another similarly strong contestant to this title, FF does win it.

[Sushi_b]

I look at Final Fantasy much like I do MTV: Relevant when you're young, but not so much when you're older. They've just lost me over the past 4 or 5 years and them almost solely catering to teenagers hasn't helped. I've had enough of the spikey haired 13 year olds saving the world and the androgynous characters. Maybe it's just me that has changed, but, I want a protagonist that who is not "dark and brooding" or with "issues" or has a "secret."

Give me a guy who has had a nasty divorce with the wife that cheated on him, has kids who hate him, or simply can't pay his mortgage...someone I can empathize with...not a junior high student who wears belts and zippers. I still like RPGs, and I still want to like SE, but FFXIII looks like more of the same ol' Final Fantasy with "over the top" outfits, scenarios, and characters.

I have to agree Blue, except for the part that I just don't like the direction of the games in general from the start.

I think to a point FF VII did usher in a new era of RPG that was able to bring people into the genre, but it also started the trend of "brooding, leather wearing, prissy heroes who save the world while solving their personal problem". Aside from FF IX and XI most of the series has seemingly followed a similar art and character approach that VII started.

[Jarrid]

Not in my opinion, but they are probably the most played of all of my games.

Um, Suikoden <3

SSNP bitches.

[LagDragon]

It must be a generation thing, Blue. ;)

[Temporal Distortion]

Aside from FF IX and XI most of the series has seemingly followed a similar art and character approach that VII started.

If you neglect the Crystal Chronicles series, that is.

[LagDragon]

And Tactics, Tactics Advance and TA 2.

[Electric Banana]

I can't actually say yes or no... As of this point, the only non-Final Fantasy RPG I've played was the first .Hack game. I hated it. I know I need to play more RPGs before I can even begin to make the assumption that it's the best series ever.

I'd definitely say it's one of the most successful series, if anything.

[Priest4hire]

I notice a lot of argument resting on Final Fantasy being popular or prolific. If that's what makes something the best then we'd be better off dropping that term and sticking with popular and/or prolific. They are far more precise terms after all.

Yes, I would agree with this right off of the bat for a couple of reasons:

1. Longevity
2. Consistency of quality
3. Revolutionary

Certainly Final Fantasy is long running. Probably the third longest running RPG series that's still alive. The quality is consistent if by quality you mean polish. But I don't get what you mean by revolutionary. I'd describe FF as safe and conservative. Revolutionary is about the last word that springs to mind. Perhaps if you'd clarify exactly what you mean.

I've said this before, but I think that when you force art into the linear model of performance that is required to declare one as 'the best' you actually reduce the scope of contemplation. Art should not be treated as something so simple as to resemble a list of competitors in the 100 meter dash.

[Atlas]

I notice a lot of argument resting on Final Fantasy being popular or prolific. If that's what makes something the best then we'd be better off dropping that term and sticking with popular and/or prolific. They are far more precise terms after all.



Certainly Final Fantasy is long running. Probably the third longest running RPG series that's still alive. The quality is consistent if by quality you mean polish. But I don't get what you mean by revolutionary. I'd describe FF as safe and conservative. Revolutionary is about the last word that springs to mind. Perhaps if you'd clarify exactly what you mean.



Mainly revolutionary for it's maintaining longevity, but also because some of the very first FFs played such major roles in legitimizing the genre.

[Priest4hire]

Now I wonder what you mean by legitimizing. After all, the golden age of computer RPGs had already started by the time the first Final Fantasy came out. There were developers that were created on the success of the genre and it certainly had critical success. How much more legitimate does it come then that?

[freeflow^]

I'd have to say it's the best RPG series in history. It consistently puts out material that receives rave reviews, and the series evolves with each sequential game. They don't limit there games to one single world or time frame, and they don't limit themselves to one specific battle/class system, even if everyone is in love with that system. They do a lot to keep the series fresh, and innovative. They're also the series that most people credit with the popularization of the RPG. I know it's what got me, and many other friends, into the genre.

The FF series doesn't contain my favorite RPG, but it does contain the most RPGs in my top 10. I think I was too young for Dragonquest or Ultima, and neither have received the same praise of Square's series.

[Priest4hire]

They haven't? Interestingly Hironobu Sakaguchi is a member of the AIAS hall of fame. But then so is Richard Garriott. You may not realize how big Ultima was in its day, but consider that Final Fantasy borrowed heavily from it; not the other way around. Or that despite being a thoroughly American series it has a Manga based on it. Actually, the Japanese went so far as to create a 'talkie' version of Ultima VI with both English and Japanese tracks. Wizardry did even better in Japan. The original title, despite being originally designed in 1981, has been ported to at least 15 platforms if you count only the Japanese ports. In fact the Japanese have kept the series alive making it the longest running RPG series still with us.

Let me point something else out in favour of Ultima. It is, without the slightest double, the single most influential RPG series in existence. You literally can not point to a modern CRPG of Japanese or Western origin without being able to find elements that were originally innovated in Ultima. And I find it hard to believe it's a coincidence that there's a weapon/spell/monster in the Final Fantasy series called Ultima.

Now, are we thinking of the same game series that has had a combat system that lines up combatants on either side of the screen for 10 titles and a 1/2 title? Sixteen years after the first Final Fantasy came out they were still using it. All they've done is tinkered with with mechanics a bit but the basic system is still Wizardry. Well, until FFXII at least. Compare that to Ultima where every game contained radical new ideas and major changes. Just months after FF came out saw the release of Ultima V. The latter had NPC scheduling, realistic day/night cycles, lighthouses that worked, herbs that could be foraged, and tactical combat based on an atomic style turn-based system. Think a simpler version of the Final Fantasy Tactics system. Pretty damn good for a game that old running on the ancient Apple II hardware.

[LagDragon]

Dude, if I had a nickle for everytime you brought up Ultima I'd be rich.

[Indigo]

It's certainly the most popular series of RPGs, But not the best. Could be better.

[freeflow^]

Let me point something else out in favour of Ultima. It is, without the slightest double, the single most influential RPG series in existence. You literally can not point to a modern CRPG of Japanese or Western origin without being able to find elements that were originally innovated in Ultima. And I find it hard to believe it's a coincidence that there's a weapon/spell/monster in the Final Fantasy series called Ultima.

The problem with Ultima is that it didn't grow like Final Fantasy, and it didn't contain stories of the same caliber, and it wasn't/isn't nearly as popular. It was the most influential, but that doesn't mean it was the best. Comparison of Chuck Berry to The Beatles fits well I think. Chuck Berry may have greatly influenced the most historic rock n roll band, The Beatles, and therefore everyone after, but The Beatles expanded and changed their sound and stayed fresh, Chuck Berry didn't, and sorely died too soon, but that's my point.

[Priest4hire]

Let me ask the obvious question: How many Ultima titles have you actually played? That it 'didn't grow like Final Fantasy seems an odd statement. I'll give you a challenge. Name any span of titles or years and we can compare FF and Ultima titles over that span to see which evolved more. How about a span of 5 titles and/or 10 years? That would be from Ultima IV to VIII.

I'd also love to know how you came to the conclusion that Ultima didn't contain stories of the same calibur.

Dude, if I had a nickle for everytime you brought up Ultima I'd be rich.

Look at the signature. Besides, I didn't bring it up.

[Blackdragon]

I'm not too find of the series as a whole, but I found FF3, FFT, FF8. and FF10 to be pretty enjoyable for the most part. I've yet to finish even one though. Something always happens (Boredom and data corruption seem to be the culprits).

[LagDragon]

Look at the signature. Besides, I didn't bring it up.

If it wasn't you that brought it up, then I'd be very surprised. Who did?

I'm really curious as to why you've got such a hard on for this ancient series. Did you work on the developement team? Does it hold some sort of nostalgic meaning to you? I don't get it. I've never heard anybody talk about Ultima as much as you do, and especially not compare it to Final Fantasy in terms of influence, longevity, or quality.

[freeflow^]

Let me ask the obvious question: How many Ultima titles have you actually played? That it 'didn't grow like Final Fantasy seems an odd statement. I'll give you a challenge. Name any span of titles or years and we can compare FF and Ultima titles over that span to see which evolved more. How about a span of 5 titles and/or 10 years? That would be from Ultima IV to VIII.

I'd also love to know how you came to the conclusion that Ultima didn't contain stories of the same calibur.

Grown as in popularity and publishing. Grown as being available on other things than DOS and old Atari/NES ports, that were impossible to find. Each series deals with the same world, same time, and having to save it from an evil lord who usually speaks in broken english. Don't tell me the translation job helped the stories cause at all. To me Ultima games were just like the first few FF's, but then FF's got better, more complex, more developed, and therefore more interesting. The characters were way more dynamic, and the battle systems grew (eg The Tactics strategy system, Final Fantasy 12's active battle system, and FF VII's materia system). Ultima never had those things... and the games never grew to anywhere near the level of FF's in terms of gameplay and popularity. The complexity of the Shinra/Sephiroth story was something that had never happened before in RPGs. I don't remember Ultima dealing with existential angst and revenge in the same way... You had to be ultra moral to beat Ultima IV, which was pretty cool, but just not as cool as FFVII. Ultima just dealt with Truth! Love! Courage! Beat bad boss who is hurting villagers! Yeah that's alittle extreme I know but it helps my point.

Ultima was more influential, but this is a thread that talks about the best RPG series, and I don't think you can say Ultima is a better series. If you do... You're one of only ones.

ps: I don't argue about games I haven't played. That seems foolish doesn't it?

[Indigo]

I probably would have thought it was the best series a few years ago, but that's because I actually thought it was the only RPG series.

[Nickoten]

The fact is that the Final Fantasy series is in itself derivative. Many of us only see the things the series has accomplished as new and noteworthy because they are so mainstream. I could say that Jay-Z as a rapper has grown significantly since his debut album, has a huge influence over other performers, is one of the most prolific artists in his field, and consistently puts out albums that both sell well and receive great reviews. Does this make him the best rapper on the market? No, definitely not.

Critical acclaim and sales make it a successful, and possibly good series, but in the end, "best" is subjective. For example, look at these points:

The characters were way more dynamic, and the battle systems grew (eg The Tactics strategy system, Final Fantasy 12's active battle system, and FF VII's materia system). Ultima never had those things... and the games never grew to anywhere near the level of FF's in terms of gameplay and popularity.

The battle system of the Final Fantasy games has changed very little from, say, Final Fantasy IV to Final Fantasy IX. What has changed is the way a character's statistics are developed. We've got Jobs, Materia, Espers, Junctioning, various ways to change a character's pre-battle setup, often resulting in more or less the same array of options in battle. I'm not saying I don't enjoy these systems, because I do. What I'm saying is that this gameplay you speak of that is constantly growing and changing is doing so within a very specific scope.

No matter what it all comes down to fighting small battles and performing the same tasks, because in the end that's what a Final Fantasy game's gameplay is - fighting. There's no real gameplay to speak of otherwise, other than maybe navigating a dungeon. I personally cannot see a role-playing game series as the "best" series in terms of evolution when it's still stuck in a Dragon Quest 1 mentality. I know the games are linear and are meant to be that way, but that doesn't really mean that the gameplay has to be so limited.

The complexity of the Shinra/Sephiroth story was something that had never happened before in RPGs. I don't remember Ultima dealing with existential angst and revenge in the same way... You had to be ultra moral to beat Ultima IV, which was pretty cool, but just not as cool as FFVII.

The story of someone finding out they've been artificially created, and deciding to take revenge/become a god because of it? Perhaps the details of the story haven't been done before, but saying that a story as complex as Final Fantasy VII's had never happened is rather unfair, especially since the notion of a "good" or "bad" story is not something you can quantify by amount of backstory and exposition.

A well developed but trite story is still trite, but hey, whether or not Sephiroth's story in Final Fantasy VII is good or not is again not up to any one person. I personally found the motive of Lavos to be more believable than Sephiroth, myself. He's eating because he has to, Sephiroth's just taking out his "self existential angst" out on the world. To me, it's not unlike Akira, only replace being created by some scientist and having perceptions of himself as being a superior being with being born amongst the dregs of society. In both cases it's just someone taking out their personal struggle on the world, the difference being that Sephiroth's a 20-something year old man who was both mentally intact and respected before hand, and Tetsuo's a teenage kid who's been looked at as inferior since his childhood, and who doesn't know any better than to strike back at those who oppress him. That's really my problem with Final Fantasy VII's story - it's certainly meant to appeal a teenage player. Do I like it? Yes. Did it accomplish something for its genre? Certainly. Has no other RPG done something similar the genre before? That, now, is open to interpretation.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I personally find the Fallout series to be far superior. But then, that's my opinion, and in the end whether Fallout is the best series comes down to whatever arbitrary conditions you decide to set. Best story? Best "gameplay"? Most growth? These are all things that you can't pin down objectively, so no, I don't think there's any way we can say that Final Fantasy is the best RPG series.

[freeflow^]

A well developed but trite story is still trite, but hey, whether or not Sephiroth's story in Final Fantasy VII is good or not is again not up to any one person. I personally found the motive of Lavos to be more believable than Sephiroth, myself. He's eating because he has to, Sephiroth's just taking out his "self existential angst" out on the world. To me, it's not unlike Akira, only replace being created by some scientist and having perceptions of himself as being a superior being with being born amongst the dregs of society. In both cases it's just someone taking out their personal struggle on the world, the difference being that Sephiroth's a 20-something year old man who was both mentally intact and respected before hand, and Tetsuo's a teenage kid who's been looked at as inferior since his childhood, and who doesn't know any better than to strike back at those who oppress him

Yeah it's similar to Akira, but unfortunately that's an Anime movie, not an RPG, which is what we're talking about. I don't see you throwing out any examples of RPGs that have accomplished stories with the depth of FFVII, especially not Ultima, and especially not at that time, which is what I'm arguing against, so yeah you bring up a point, but it doesn't argue mine properly. Lavos was a logical and straight forward boss. He was hungry and he needed to eat. What happened to the people he crushed, and the people that he was going to crush was more interesting to me personally. He was the catalyst that enabled a great story, but his character didn't blow my mind with genious and ingenuity.

The battle system of the Final Fantasy games has changed very little from

That's correct. I wasn't nearly as descriptive as I should have been. And yes the term 'best' will conjur subjective views, but that's my view. I think Final Fantasy's are superior games. They had more interesting characters. Delita's journey from 2nd class peon, to a powerful Dark Knight, from a protagonist to an antagonist, from trusting to manipulative, from friend to nemesis was an amazing travel, and I subjectively say it was better than anything I ever saw from Ultima. I don't think traveling back in time to save the earth is quite as interesting, since it's idea is more simplistic, and it's easier to pull off (ie you only need to set up a few scenarios/plot ties to make that happen) I bet many others would argee with me that FF is superior, soo then we have abunch of subjective beliefs, so take them for what they are worth.

saying that a story as complex as Final Fantasy VII's had never happened is rather unfair, especially since the notion of a "good" or "bad" story is not something you can quantify by amount of backstory and exposition.

It doesn't hurt does it?

I think you mistake subjective for meaningless. Sure opinions change, and nobody is exactly right or wrong about opinions, but people base opinions on factual concepts, and reasonings. For example, I've studied music my whole life, and that has causes me to enjoy certain music over others, for specific reasons. I like Megadeth for it's complexity and straight-to-the-point approach to metal. Very few musicians can make solos and riffs that technical, while still coming out with fresh and new ideas. I don't like Hillary Duff because she doesn't write her own music or lyrics, the type of chord progressions and rhyme schemes she has have been done thousands of times before, and she doesn't perform live. Now there are reasons to why I like certain music, and in this specific case, RPGs. So just saying a reason is subjective does not mean we can't come to a general consensus. We all have experience playing RPGs, we all know what to look for, and we all posses educated opinions on the topic of RPGs, and what makes them good. So when I say that FFT and VII have more interesting stories than Ultima, and that the gameplay of FF games has evolved in more unique directions, and you compare those games to CT or an anime movie, then you haven't done your job of convincing me againt my point, and therefore I'm still going to stick with my opinion.

[Nickoten]

I'm reading this at a pretty late hour, so I'll keep my reply short. What I'm saying is that I don't see a story's core ideas to be indicative of how good the plot of a game really is. I liked the plot of Final Fantasy VII, but at the same time I didn't really like how the concepts it had played out. I didn't like Sephiroth or his motive, and while his story might have had way more events and exposition, I just found Lavos's concept to be more interesting and, taking into account the contexts of the games, more believable. Sure, the game's clearly designed to be family-friendly, just like Final Fantasy VII appeals to the 13 year old in me, but for what it set out to accomplish, I found that I was far more pleased with Chrono Trigger's result.

But again, I'm not going to argue the significance of Final Fantasy VII. No matter what I think of it, there's really no debating its cultural significance in relation to video games, but I still stand by my opinion that, as a whole series, the games have done well to popularize the genre, but not really to change it, not to the point that I'd look at them as the best RPGs. Granted, it all comes down to the criteria you select, like I noted before.

[Abominari]

The problem with Ultima is that it didn't grow like Final Fantasy, and it didn't contain stories of the same caliber
That only matters if you throw all of your eggs into that particular basket, and what you're expecting when you do. If you want to run with the gun analogy, I don't think it's fair to say that the Ultima games didn't contain stories of the same caliber of the Final Fantasy ones: it's the aim that's different. Ultima's stories are less emotionally-focused, more political intrigue, but Final Fantasy deals more heavily with heavy-handed melodrama. For some, "existential angst" isn't a big motivator.

Frankly, I think most Final Fantasy games have ridiculous over-the-top stories, filled mostly with bullshit and the sort of half-baked shallow character psychology goth teens use to divide all the people in their world. But that's just me. I can tolerate those sorts of narratives sometimes, but it has to be supported by the core gameplay, and as someone coming from the PC gaming world, the RPG-on-rails nature of Final Fantasy games has always been one of my least favorite elements of the series.

I couldn't give two shits about popularity.

The mistake I see you making in regards to the Lavos vs. Sephiroth issue is misunderstanding purpose. You don't find Lavos especially interesting, but that's the not point. As you already noted, more interesting are the people that live in the sphere of his influence: it's not just what you prefer, that was the entire point of the game -- not Lavos, but his effect. FFVII was all Cloud and Sephiroth. Lavos didn't have to blow your mind with genius, as he was really only a parasite on epic scale.

Add me to the list of those who'd take the first two Fallout games over the entire FF series any day. Same deal with Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, the Mother/Earthbound series, and to be honest I prefer the Dragon Quest/Warrior games to Final Fantasy also. And if you want to add in series outside RPGs the list grows tenfold.

[Priest4hire]

Grown as in popularity and publishing. Grown as being available on other things than DOS and old Atari/NES ports, that were impossible to find. Each series deals with the same world, same time, and having to save it from an evil lord who usually speaks in broken english. Don't tell me the translation job helped the stories cause at all. To me Ultima games were just like the first few FF's, but then FF's got better, more complex, more developed, and therefore more interesting. The characters were way more dynamic, and the battle systems grew (eg The Tactics strategy system, Final Fantasy 12's active battle system, and FF VII's materia system). Ultima never had those things... and the games never grew to anywhere near the level of FF's in terms of gameplay and popularity. The complexity of the Shinra/Sephiroth story was something that had never happened before in RPGs. I don't remember Ultima dealing with existential angst and revenge in the same way... You had to be ultra moral to beat Ultima IV, which was pretty cool, but just not as cool as FFVII. Ultima just dealt with Truth! Love! Courage! Beat bad boss who is hurting villagers! Yeah that's alittle extreme I know but it helps my point.

Ultima was more influential, but this is a thread that talks about the best RPG series, and I don't think you can say Ultima is a better series. If you do... You're one of only ones.

ps: I don't argue about games I haven't played. That seems foolish doesn't it?

Speaking of foolish, the second trilogy of Ultima titles don't feature a 'dark lord'. At all. Try and name the grand foozle of Ultima IV. Name the boss that was hurting the villagers. See, the whole point of Ultima IV was to act as a hero rather than simply be one by virtue of killing the bad guys. There's very little story in Ultima IV, but then it was breaking new ground in other areas. Ultima V was when the series turned to plot.

Also, you ever heard of projection? I'm wondering because you talk about complexity and growth and yet I'm not seeing it. Sure, FF developed the art of pushing plot via in-game movies. But gameplay? By 1988 Ultima had NPC scheduling, atomic turn-based combat, day-night cycles, enhanced item interaction, a calendar, and a sophisticated magic system. While it doesn't deal with existential angst so much, it does deal with fundamentalism and moral absolutism. It also has the balls to have foes that can't be defeated in battle.

By 1990 Ultima had done away with different scales. Kind of like how FF did 16 years later. It also featured the first bits of physics simulation. Oh, and it was pushing themes of racism and how the unintended consequences of seemingly moral actions can be horrific. 1992 saw a more fleshed out physics engine with objects having mass and volume. It also saw the introduction of a real-time combat engine of a similar style to Star Ocean. Sort of anyway. NPC scheduling became more complex as well as semi-dynamic. Object interaction achieved a whole new level of sophistication to the point where one could bake bread or milk cows. 1993 added paper-doll to the mix among other things.

Finally, 1994 saw Ultima VIII which was a bit of a downgrade. Partly due to EA's influence on what was a very difficult and time-consuming series to develop. Still, the game featured even better physics as well as an Avatar that could jump and climb on just about anything he could jump up to grip. Oh, and catch this: it doesn't take place in Britannia.

This turned out a lot longer than expected, but I hope it makes my point. No series has ever been more aggressive about pushing the limits of interaction in CRPGs. Or revamped its gameplay as radically. And it wasn't lack of popularity that killed the series. Ultima Online was a huge success. It was internal issues at EA. Oh, and one quick note. The NES versions are pretty much crap. The SMS version of Ultima IV is pretty much accurate and it's 4 times larger than the NES port. Ultima V was several times its predecessor in size and yet had the same size cart for the NES port. The SNES version of Ultima VII is a joke for much the same reason.

If it wasn't you that brought it up, then I'd be very surprised. Who did?

I'm really curious as to why you've got such a hard on for this ancient series. Did you work on the developement team? Does it hold some sort of nostalgic meaning to you? I don't get it. I've never heard anybody talk about Ultima as much as you do, and especially not compare it to Final Fantasy in terms of influence, longevity, or quality.

freeflow^ brought it up. I just took the bait. As for why. Well, I was playing Ultima before there were JRPGs available over here. Plus, I like to delude myself into thinking I'm a bit of a CRPG historian type. And I do think my arguments hold water. Oh, and the official Internet Ultima fan club is called the Ultima Dragons Internet Chapter. Nor am I alone in this. Look at the fan remake of Ultima V. That was a staggering achievement for a fan project like that. The fans liked it so much they ran a donation drive and bought a crossbow from David R. Watson for the guy who headed up the remake. Watson is the real life counterpart of Iolo from Ultima. Kind of cute, isn't it?

[Nickoten]

This is the second time I read this discussion and I just realized that Priest just told us what the bottom portion of his signature means! Amazing!

[Brian]

I always thought FF to be the best series when I was a kid. That was until I discovered other rpg from different companies. Is it still the best series? Hell no but it maintained the whole feel of what rpgs should be like. Too bad they only did that up to part 9. Square started showing too much eye-candy rather than giving what fans really wanted. These days it's always about the kids and not what us old hardcore rpg fans see it now.

During that time, I praised other rpg series higher than this anyway.

[BAMAJAMA]

For me it is a personal thing, I was away from gaming for a long span. From the first year of the original Nintendo to the last year of the PS1. When I picked up gaming again, the first title I played was FFVII(have since played almost all FF titles). This hooked me back into gaming. I love the series personally. My point is this, sometimes it is not story, graphics or generally how it plays, it is what kind of attachment do you have to it. That is not to say that FF's have bad story, graphics, et al. Another example of this in another medium is Star Wars. The original trilogy seems so much better to us who grew up in the 70's than the new trilogy. I think alot of this is because we were kids then, just as kids today probably like the more recent trilogy better. I may get lambasted about this but there it is.;)

[Raidou]

Priest is correct again about how FF actually borrowed/ stealed so many ideas from Ultima. Though I remember vividly how much and/or how big the influence is from Ultima, the FF developer were just smart to research into American computer RPG titles then. The bottom line is, FF is so popular not because of its own original ideas, but it derived most of the magic ideas from Ultima. Where the hell do you think they got the name of the most powerful Ultima tome in FFII (not the NA FF2)? Is a kind of indirect credit to Ultima ya.

FYI, FF1 is super lame in the NES. I recently replayed it in the PSP but is still lame though they added some extra dungeons in it. I can tell you for sure why people love it so much back then was all because it was very challenging RPG title for the Japs gamers. They love crazy insane challenges in games and FF1 fits the bill back then. If they (the Japs, Asians) had access to Ultima (PC) back then, things would be so different. I think I don't need to give you young RPG gamers a history on how expensive a computer system were back then as compared to a console Super Famicom which is Made in Japan. FF more affordable and still gives you the same challenge you want to see in RPG.

FFII was even more unforgiving since characters in the party does not level up but what actions they do during random battle will change their character stats. You cast spell more but still that doesnt mean you will gain more Spirit point, it depends on how effective you used it and how appropriate you use it in battle. Is more RPG rather than simply grinding for more levels as you wish by killing high exp fiends. Again, this concept comes from D&D eh.

So will I say FF is the best series ever? Nah. It sux more and more recently. BTW, if you folks yet to realize, there is no such thing as the best series. Is a myth. Most popular does not necessary means it is the best.