When Good Icons Go Bad: The Fall of Sonic the Hedgehog

[Sen]

So when was it that "the blue blur" ran right off a cliff? Today, we're confronted with the unfortunate fact that Sega's mascot is now the poster-child (poster-rodent?) for how to destroy a beloved video game icon and franchise. Sonic the Hedgehog games are now so extraordinarily bad, that there is absolutely no indication whatsoever for the younger gaming generation that they were once something truly special. At one time, Sonic even rivaled the mighty Mario, frontman for the powerhouse that is Nintendo. Can any other character in video game history make that claim? Probably not. But the string of awful games that followed the string of awesome games is what pulled Sonic down from the high pedestal that Mario sits atop. Recent games that pair the two together, Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games seem nothing more than Nintendo pitying the speedy failure. He ran so fast, he made a wrong turn, and never corrected the error. Where did he deviate from the correct path? What should be done to fix it?

Though the Dreamcast's Sonic Adventure was a relatively good game, I'd make the claim that it was the jump to full 3D that sealed Sonic's fate. While the game was fun, it was nowhere near as fun as earlier games, and introduced many staples of modern Sonic games I despise. I suggest simply going back to 2D gameplay to reinvigorate the series, but with the polished 3D visuals today's more powerful hardware can provide. The PS3's LittleBigPlanet is a good example of this concept. I'd prefer Sega go back to the ideas that made Sonic games great in the first place, instead of continually put out embarrassing titles like Sonic and the Black Knight, where they keep adding new elements to a formula that just doesn't work. Any thoughts?

[Phakiel]

I am at a loss as well, its really like Sega is thinking with their feet. Before Shadow the Hedgehog was announced I still had faith, Sonic Adventure 2 was an ok game, still dwarfed by the main thing that made the first SA not so great, too many characters.

But after they showed Shadow, which I thought at first was a cruel joke, i knew they had hit rock bottom. Then I thought they could salvage something if they got back on their feet and deliver what fans want, a pure Sonic game, no Amy Rose, no Shadow, not even tails, just Sonic. But that failed.

Sega still doesnt get it, its like that stupid friend who keeps trying to make a rocket from household products and keeps on crashing them into churches or killing small children, the first rockets were fun, but then he lost himself in building rockets for fun and just builds rockets so that people gather around him and watch little Paul get the rocket's point into his face while, and everybody going no with their heads.

Such a torrid state of affairs.

[moogle]

I have high hopes for Sonic. Supposedly Sonic Unleashed was pretty good (I haven't played it yet though), so maybe that'll get the ball rolling. As long as they get rid of the gimicky crap, Sonic should do just fine. Just focus on good platforming.

We've seen the same thing happen to Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon, although it's a bit different due to the original developers abandoning both series after the PS1 era. In an attempt to seem "hip" they've become boring and generic.

[Phakiel]

Yeah but Crash and Spyro have always sucked balls. Big gay balls.

[Luisfe]

Sonic and the Black Knight could've worked. I mean, wasn't Seven Rings supposedly at least halfway decent? But it was apparently badly implemented (haven't played either, so I don't know)
High speed plus a sword is a formula that can work well, as seen in Rocket Knight Adventures/Sparkster (which is a series that could use a revival, I think). But apparently it was messed up. Oh well.


In any case, the DS games have been all been if anyuthing, decent. Even the RPG thing, it was fun, it could've used a better soundtrack, but at least the battle system (which was reminiscent of things such as Elite Beat Agents) was pretty entertaining.

[moogle]

Yeah but Crash and Spyro have always sucked balls. Big gay balls.
If you don't like the first three games (on the PS1) of Crash and Spyro, then you just plain don't like 3D platformers. I don't know how else to put it. I can understand not liking the linearity of Crash, that can be kind of hit or miss for a lot of people, but Spyro deserves a spot right up there with Mario 64. If you ask me, the Spyros were actually better in a lot of ways. OH YES, I WENT THERE.

[Phakiel]

To be completely honest I never actually give either one a chance. Its not like I was turned off by Spyro's kiddish orientation since I am a huge Ape Escape fan, but I remember playing both series back in the psx era and thought, well I have done this before, and this crash guy looks like a big attitude douchebag and Spyro is too queer, no chance I am into these games, lets move on.

Maybe fanboyism made me enjoy Mario more, and maybe the whole novelty of using the sticks in Ape Escape was too cool for me, I just never liked either Crash nor Spyro.

[moogle]

Crash and Spyro certainly weren't groundbreaking like Mario 64 or Ape Escape. The first of each were pretty straightforward 3D platforming. But they had a couple things going for them: great level design and good controls. It's amazing how few platformers get those right.

[drunken monk]

Its not just Sonic... Sega as a whole sucks now. Virtua Fighter is the only series they have that still has AAA status. I think the problem is that Sega lost all of their talent when the DC died. After I heard about Yu Suzuki leaving I knew they were fucked. And my hopes of a Shenmue 3 went out the window.

[Cyrus the virus]

I was at Blockbuster just this weekend. I saw the cover for Sonic and the Black Knight, or whatever it's called, and had to bring it over to my friend in the PS3 section just so he could mock it with me. Why does Sonic have a sword?

[Sen]

Supposedly Sonic Unleashed was pretty good (I haven't played it yet though)
I mean, wasn't Seven Rings supposedly at least halfway decent? But it was apparently badly implemented (haven't played either, so I don't know)
Perhaps we just get our information from different sources, but I've heard overwhelmingly bad things about both of those games. But do you see the pattern here? Sonic doesn't even have enough appeal anymore to motivate old fans to just try out his new adventures.

High speed plus a sword is a formula that can work well, as seen in Rocket Knight Adventures/Sparkster (which is a series that could use a revival, I think).
That's true. That was a pretty fun game. But a sword is out of place in the hands of Sonic; his gimmick is running, not swordplay.

Even the RPG thing, it was fun, it could've used a better soundtrack, but at least the battle system (which was reminiscent of things such as Elite Beat Agents) was pretty entertaining.
I followed development of that game for a while, and though I really tried to stay interested in it, I just couldn't. There seemed a noticeable lack of speed and that really turned me off. But perhaps I am completely wrong, and that fundamental element to the Sonic formula was present. Still doesn't change the fact that Sonic's first attempt at an RPG did absolutely nothing to boost his shameful modern day status.

Its not just Sonic... Sega as a whole sucks now. Virtua Fighter is the only series they have that still has AAA status. I think the problem is that Sega lost all of their talent when the DC died.
Yeah, I was thinking that too. Even though I don't think it necessarily has to be this way, Sonic's fall seems firmly linked to Sega's own. I just don't feel like their mascot has to drown with their company, though. To me, I just don't see how it could be such a challenge to produce a good Sonic game. The old ones were great and simple.

I was at Blockbuster just this weekend. I saw the cover for Sonic and the Black Knight, or whatever it's called, and had to bring it over to my friend in the PS3 section just so he could mock it with me.
Hehe, that's been a pretty common occurrence for the last several years with these games. At least for me, it has.

[Phakiel]

I personally cracked up and cried at the same time when I saw Shadow the Hedgehog. Seriously, you dont know how much I hate that game.

[Luisfe]

In any case, it follows the trend of "Sega's inhouse stuff sucks now, but their externally published games rock"
Examples: MadWorld and house of the Dead: Overkill. Those are awesome.

[Sushi_b]

I was at Blockbuster just this weekend. I saw the cover for Sonic and the Black Knight, or whatever it's called, and had to bring it over to my friend in the PS3 section just so he could mock it with me. Why does Sonic have a sword?

I hoped you laughed at the PS3 Sonic game as well.


I think that Sonic has had some great outings on the handhelds (Rivals seems like it sucks though). It's too bad that they have continually tried to add more characters with each successive game and they basically all have failed. On average the Sonic games are selling quite well and that's the only concern of SEGA's (as is for any company). It's just too bad that they don't seem to care that Sonic is spiraling downwards.

Everyone has constantly said that the best thing to do is focus on the speed and simple gameplay. It's a tired claim that is constantly being throw out. I would much rather see a new game that is a downloadable game in 2D that uses the early Sonic 1-3 engines. Make a ton of stages featuring quick gameplay, mixed with a few great platforming (such as Labyrinth zone). It shouldn't be too hard to do in all honesty. Don't get too complicated but add some creativity to it.



As for SEGA themselves, they have done a good job of acquiring other developers and publishing their games. The only new IP that they have really worked on themselves that has been particularly well made was Valkyria Chronicles. Unfortunately it didn't sell very much. All that means is that SEGA will regress back to making titles for money and put less creative energy towards new games. Maybe we will continue to see them outsource their old licenses like they did with HotD: Overkill.

[Cyrus the virus]

They didn't have a sonic game on the PS3 there, at least not the black knight one which I don't think can be topped.

[Luisfe]

Wasn't Sonic Unleashed (the one with the werewolf sonic thing) on all consoles?

[drunken monk]

In any case, it follows the trend of "Sega's inhouse stuff sucks now, but their externally published games rock"
Examples: MadWorld and house of the Dead: Overkill. Those are awesome.

Yeah but its not like you can credit Sega for those games. All they did was throw money at a developer and slapped their name on the box.

I think Sega could make a good Sonic game if they would just take the time to do it right instead of spamming the poor guy every year. You cant expect quality from any game that get rushed like Sonics been lately.

[Cyrus the virus]

Black Knight was Wii exclusive. I don't recall any werewolf thingie.

[Phakiel]

I vaguely remember the werewolf thing as being on Unleashed. I remember because thats what made me do a fuck it and dont buy the game, I mean really, Sega, a werewolf Sonic? Why?

[Luisfe]

Ayyup. Unleashed was in every console
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_unleashed

[Sushi_b]

I was actually thinking of the first Sonic the Hedgehog game that was released on the PS3 and 360. Seems that everyone forgot about that game on purpose. Supposedly the day sequences of Unleashed were actually really good and the night parts are junk. Yet another attempt to make Sonic into something more then he needs to be.

Interesting pictures I found on Kotaku.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2009/04/sonic_1_history.jpg
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2009/04/sonic_2_history.jpg
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2009/04/sonic_3_history.jpg


Sonic sure looks chubby during his "spinball" days.

[moogle]

Wow, looks like they really did get all of them there.

Triple Trouble and Chaos kicked serious ass, made it worthwhile to hold onto my Game Gear.

Too bad they're not exactly in the order they were released. Someone should fix that.

[Sen]

Ah yes, the "Figure Eight" from Sonic CD. Cool, but never seen again. I'd actually say that game was my favorite, though Sonic 3 & Knuckles might be right up there with it.

[Sushi_b]

It's too bad that some of the gameplay from CD never carried over to other games like the time changing. That and some of the music was fantastic.

I still think it would be really wise of SEGA to make a downloadable 2D Sonic title and it would sell well. Plus the operating costs would be much lower then that of a regular game. Just imagine how good it could be. It almost feels as though SEGA thinks it would cheapen the Sonic franchise to do this, yet most of us would argue otherwise.

[Sen]

Anybody know how well Capcom fared with Megaman 9? Perhaps that would be an indication of how Sega might do with a new classicly-styled Sonic.

[Sushi_b]

I don't know the numbers but I read some where that the game did very well for a downloadable title. Capcom was pleased with the outcome. I know that SEGA can do the same, especially if they release it to all 3 consoles, which should be fairly easy to do. This also eliminates the need to re-tool a game for graphics or controls on the Wii and such.

[Cyrus the virus]

I read that Capcom was pleased with the outcome, which I think bodes well. I think they should perhaps add a way to select the difficulty, but otherwise it's a good direction to go in.

[Sushi_b]

I read that Capcom was pleased with the outcome, which I think bodes well. I think they should perhaps add a way to select the difficulty, but otherwise it's a good direction to go in.

Adding a difficulty level option would be a great idea because I've read that a fair number of the new Sonic titles have been far too easy. Could be a way to give different players a chance to challenge themselves.

One idea that could be neat would be a mix and mach type game where Sonic could get stuck in a sort of time warp where he has to travel through some levels from previous games as well as new ones. While adding different enemies and segements to the old levels.

That or a level creator similar to Little Big Planet where you could make and share your stages online with friends. Just as a side portion to a main game.

[Luisfe]

That or a level creator similar to Little Big Planet where you could make and share your stages online with friends. Just as a side portion to a main game.

That would be pretty awesome and add a lot of replay value.

Racing games also need that desperately.