Classic RPG Discussion: The 16-bit Mana titles

[Ges]

I know some of you guys' definition of "classic" might not jive with my own (I'm glancing in your direction, Priest), but I thought it'd be good to drum up some discussion by going back and revisiting some of our favorite older RPGs from yesteryear and some of the accompanying topics. Maybe I'll make these threads a serial thing or something. I dunno. We'll see how this one goes.

I'll start with something a little more mainstream in RPG circles but a game that was hardly ever discussed at length here on the forums, Secret of Mana; its estranged cousin, Secret of Evermore; and the never-released Seiken Densetsu 3/Secret of Mana 2. I hope at least a decent amount of you have played some of them?


Anywho, some questions to ruminate over and discuss:

- As an RPG and amongst its SNES contemporaries (Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Breath of Fire II, etc), where do you think SoM's place is?

- What are some of your favorite SoM bosses, enemies, towns, dungeons, etc?

- Why do you think later Mana games generally failed to recapture what we all liked about Secret of Mana? Do you think any subsequent Mana games ever will?

- What are your thoughts on Secret of Evermore? It shared an engine with SoM, but was in made entirely by American Square staffers. Any profound differences between the games that you think might warrant a deeper look?

- The non-release of Seiken Densetsu 3 in America. It was never localized even though SoM got a pretty good reception in the states (and despite SD3 being every bit as good as SoM). Have any of you had a chance to play it?

I had to go the ROM route with an unofficial translation, but its worth a playthrough, I would say.



For those of you who haven't played SoM, SoE, or Seiken Densetsu 3, I highly recommend them. I haven't played SoE all the way through, myself, but it's on my backburner.

[WOTON]

I never got into this series. I've played bits of all three mentioned games and Legend for the playstation. Just not my cup of tea. But they have their fan base. I think one aspect that people liked was that you could play with a buddy. For me it just seemed too limited. That's just my take.

[Ges]

I've never played Legend although I gave Sword of Mana (on the GBA) a try when it came out.

It was a steaming turd of mediocrity, to say it truthfully. I think perhaps in trying to revive the series the developers are trying too much to change it into something different. Kinda like the SaGa series, it needs to go back to its roots, not adding some funky play mechanic just for the sake of doing so. Only Zelda can do that.

I'm wondering what the dev teams from the SNES Manas and the newer Manas are and if they match up a lot. Project for a boring day, maybe. I'm guessing there hasn't been a lot of the same people from then working on the newer Mana titles. If there has, well then that's just wrong.

[Atlas]

I never played SoM. =/ That was my own fault, though; it was always on the bottom of my list of games to play. Although, from what I did see of the game (the art, etc), I liked a lot. Just never got around to it. The art really was amazing, though. It seemed very original. Obviously, that doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is any good, but I have a feeling it is.

[Ges]

Oh, it is. Outside of CT and the third Xenosaga, it's my favorite RPG evar.

That and the fact that the story is incredibly long. Looooooong. Which is a good thing.

Plus, one of the bosses is Santa.

[freeflow^]

SoM was a great game for it's time, and maybe one of the best during the 90s, but the game hasn't held up too well. The AI was retarded, even more so nowadays, and the storyline was only... ok I guess. Fun concepts and an entertaining battle system, but not on the same level as SNES greats like Earthbound, CT, and FFIV. I have played alot of the original, but I've never been persuaded to play the games for Playstation or GBA.

[generalelectric]

the only one i played was secret of evermore. i deeply wish they'd make a sequel to that game with the same style of graphics, but in full 3d, the way they would look in what was then truly high tech cg. I think that a sequel to that game, refined a bit to have more varied and deep gameplay, gameplay that was NEVER even CLOSE to redundant... could make myst look dull from an exploratory perspective. i wish a small studio with truly imaginative level designers would take that on and write a good, POWERFUL, convincing story for it and make it happen. it could be an absolutely amazing escapist fantasy. the multiple worlds, the eery music, the strange magic system... if you increased the sense of exploration and immersion this game, it could REALLY be something.

[Ges]

Okay, I might try to being some more of these all-encompassing thread topics back, despite the non-discussion this old sucker got.

Pre PS1 Final Fantasies, maybe? Something broad enough to get some replies? :P

[Phakiel]

I never played SoM throughly. I think I only went through like 10 minutes of the first one for the snes.

However I did played Legend of Mana and thought it was absolutely brilliant. It ranks high on my top ps1 rpgs only probably beaten by Xenogears, P2 and FFVIII. The artwork was fantastic and I just loved staring at the background. Also the character art was beautiful. Also I liked the fighting system. It was a bit clunky yes, but I still think it managed to get the job done.

I think Legend was one of the most overlooked games for the ps1 and I had spent hours on it just picking up and using artifacts to bring about new levels.

As for Secret of Evermore, that was a gigantic turd of a game and I totally hated it and wanted to hit a wall after playing it. It looked cute and all but fuck me, that game really pissed me off.

[Luisfe]

There should be more co-op action RPGs like the Mana series. Closest thing this console generation is funnily enough, Demon's Souls. Neat magic system.


never finished either SoM or Seiken 3.

[Luisfe]

As for Secret of Evermore, that was a gigantic turd of a game and I totally hated it and wanted to hit a wall after playing it. It looked cute and all but fuck me, that game really pissed me off.

It had awesome bosses at first. Also, really good music. I remember the alchemy system being broken, but not in a good way, but I haven't played that in years so I dunno.

[Phakiel]

Fuck that game man. Its really one of those games that I cant play because it angers me. It angers me that a game could be so stupid.

[Luisfe]

Fair enough!

In any case, wasn't it also the first USA-made Square game?

[Phakiel]

First and only I think.

[Raph]

Pre PS1 Final Fantasies, maybe?

Anything before the PS1 era... -do not want-, unless it's a full-on remake.

[Phakiel]

Anything before the PS1 era... -do not want-, unless it's a full-on remake.

What? Are you serious?

There are loads of really fantastic games for the snes, and some for the genesis, that deserve a shot. The Final Fantasies, Chrono Trigger, Actraiser (which really needs a remake), Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, Terranigma, fucking Tales of Phantasia, the Phantasy Star games, maybe Langrisser which I personally never played.

[Luisfe]

Also Uncharted Waters, the Ultimas, Dragon Quests, etceterah, etceterah, etceterah.
Seriously, anything before the ps1 era? Damn.

[Mark]

I've never played Legend although I gave Sword of Mana (on the GBA) a try when it came out.

I highly urge you to try and find it. me and my friends spent countless hours playing that game, and the story is really really good considering the silent protagonist (I only say that cause I am not a big fan of Silent heros). but you can load up your friends characters from there game and play with them. and battle each other. also the weapon/armor/accessory creation was awesome! it was an amazing game and the water colored universe was rendered very well. I love Legend of Mana! still such a great game!

and also I have played most of the Mana games, up till the one on the PS2 I have loved them all. the one on PS2 really pissed me off though. I hated losing everything after each new stage.

[Phakiel]

Also Uncharted Waters

I have never heard about that one, sounds like fun.

[Luisfe]

It is. There is a free to play MMO based on it now. Haven't tried it, btu Uncharted Waters and UW2 are among the finest SNES games.

(I like Sid Meier's Pirates! better though)

[Phakiel]

Yeah I hate MMOs but I will check out the Snes games.