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View Full Version : AZ shooting targets US congresswoman, kills federal judge and 5 others.


Less Than Liz
01-09-2011, 04:26 AM
Link. (http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T1)

(CNN) -- A gunman intended to assassinate a U.S. representative when he opened fire outside a Tucson, Arizona, supermarket Saturday, killing six and wounding 12 including the congresswoman, the local sheriff said hours after the shooting.

U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was in critical condition late Saturday after surgery for a single gunshot wound to the head. The dead included a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl, authorities said.

One suspect was in custody immediately after the shooting, and investigators were "actively in pursuit" of a second man whom they believed may be involved in the attempted assassination, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said Saturday night.

Two people tackled the suspected shooter, stopping a spray of bullets from what federal and state law enforcement sources described as a 9mm Glock outfitted with a 30-round magazine.

Dupnik said the suspect in custody is 22, but declined to name him. An Arizona law enforcement source and a federal law enforcement source, meanwhile, identified the suspect as Jared Lee Loughner.There's much more behind the link. So far six (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot) have been killed, including U.S. District Judge John Roll and 9-year-old Christina Greene (http://globalgrind.com/channel/news/content/1899875/she-has-a-name-christina-taylor-greene-9-yr-old-killed-in-tucson-massacre-born-on-91101-photos/), with twelve others wounded. No one's entirely sure what the shooter's motivations for the attempted assassination were outside of speculation regarding his social media (http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shootings.suspect.social/index.html?iref=NS1). Loughner claims to have acted alone, but police suspect he had an accomplice.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread made about this yet. I think it’s abhorrent that someone would try to deter civil discourse through violence. Free societies are defined by their ability to have such conversations. Having said that, earlier I was feeling pretty angry, concerned, and upset about the whole ordeal, expressing a lot of the same sentiment seen all over. It occurred to me, though, that there is something positive worth mentioning.

I’m reading a book called Shake Hands with the Devil written by the UN Force Commander during the peacekeeping missions in Rwanda from 1993-1994. It’s perhaps colored my perspective quite a bit since starting it. Outside of its more obvious lessons is the importance of the rule of law as a foundation for free societies. It’s the tool through which the aforementioned civil discourse can occur. It allows for predictability and stability, which are essential for people feeling safe when it comes to virtually everything, from expressing an opinion to just living your daily life. What occurred in Rwanda due to lack of that rule, as well as a myriad of other factors, was horrific and devastating. That should go without saying.

The reaction to today’s situation is, at least, a testament to the fact that the rule of law is present and governs in both Arizona and the whole of the United States. In some parts of the world, all it takes is one gunshot such as this one to descend into chaos. No one in Arizona is going to be turning their lights off tonight. Families won’t go into hiding. There won’t be a state coup. People won’t fear that their neighbors are dangerous or will betray their trust at any given moment. No one will take to the streets with guns and create a dangerous mob mentality where violence begets more violence. Few, if anyone, will feel emboldened to imitate the gunman. Arizona won’t be burning. People will still have candid conversations, go out to dinner, to the movies, to their friends’ houses, and sleep soundly. And this is fine. This is what it means to exist in a society that has the legal and social mechanisms to deal with this kind of violent behavior. What occurred today was undoubtedly tragic, but we should at least be able to find some solace in the fact that it is an anomaly, and one that won’t spiral into more illegitimately coercive and violent behavior against individuals, particular groups of people, or the population at large.

I really don’t care right now whether the gunman was a right-wing or left-wing nut. Gifford, the wounded, and other casualties, don’t exist to valid idealogues’ axiomatic worldviews.* I hope she and others in similar condition recover swiftly and fully. I hope the gunman is afforded every legal protection we have available so that, when he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for the criminal he is and will be proven to be, his consequences are without question. Finally, I hope politicians and pundits – professional and armchair alike – take this as a cue to tone down the kind of rhetoric that exists solely to incite such behavior, and is detrimental to the civilized discourse that was supposed to occur in Arizona today.

That said, what are your thoughts?

* Even if this man was an anti-government radical of any persuasion, he failed. The reactions to his murders did nothing but reaffirm the legitimacy of both local, state, and federal governments.

Hyde
01-09-2011, 04:50 PM
I agree with pretty much everything you said, myself.

When I heard about the situation, it had just happened and they thought Gifford was dead. Thankfully, they were wrong and as of this morning, she is able to communicate. But the guy still managed to kill a judge, and more tragically... a 9 year old girl.

Nine years. That's barely enough time to realize what being alive even means let alone to have lived for only 9 years. That's.... just heartbreaking to me. If anything, this makes me even MORE anti-gun and I really hope this starts up something bigger. The right to "bear arms" is archaic in today's society. It's unnecessarry. Your right should come with an application process into that same government. An application process that includes a psychological evaluation by a 3rd party.

I know it won't fix the problem in it's entirety.. but it's a start.

moogle
01-09-2011, 05:39 PM
Really just horrible that this happened. Unfortunately I do think this is partly the result of a lack of civility in today's politics. Obviously this kid was a nut, and I think the political climate right now is ripe to attract people like him to take violent action on politicians. It's almost not surprising, I hate to say.

Less Than Liz
01-09-2011, 09:05 PM
I don't think people who shoot to kill will be at all deterred by stronger gun laws.

Priest4hire
01-10-2011, 08:36 AM
Pretty much. Granted, a particular case might work out such that tighter gun laws would have prevented a shooting. However, when you look at the big picture, countries that tighten gun laws don't see a reduction in crime linked to said gun laws. Or put anther way, there was a time a Canadian who was not a criminal or known to be mentally disturbed could buy a fully automatic weapon. We have since cracked down to the point where all firearms must be registered, it's difficult to own a handgun, there are all kinds of inane restrictions, and you'll never get a permit to carry. Want to wager on whether this has been accompanied by a move from anarchy and violence to peace?

WOTON
01-12-2011, 04:23 PM
The guy was crazy. It seems he was obsessed with the congress woman since 2007. This tragedy is more about mental illness than politics. Sad to see people trying to take opportunity of this matter. Some very innocent people lost their lives.