The JRPG

[Ges]

There have been grumblings that the RPG is in a turbulent time as people grow jaded with JRPGs. Nowadays, it is stuff like Fallout, Mass Effect, Fable and Demon's Souls that are stealing the genre headlines, where before (most recently during the late PS2 lifespan) there were JRPGs releasing every which direction you looked.

Do you think the genre is shifting away from JRPGs to those with more Western trappings? If so, why do you think it would be? Which type of game do you prefer?

[Blue]

Eh, JRPGs still come out in a good quantity, they just don't get localized. Namco?

I do think that the Eastern market has noticed a lot of what has made Western RPGs more prevalent over the past few years. I mean, you can say all you want, but the West is a huge market that you can't ignore anymore, which the East seems to have been doing over the past few years.

The fact that Namco finally announced they're localizing Tales of Grace for the PS3 is a huge deal for people like us.

Granted, people over here that like JRPGs are a minority and Japan sees this as well. The shooter is king over here, so it's going to be tough to have another FFVII-esque resurgence.

[Sushi_b]

I don't think it's so much just Eastern developers, but more of a case of Japan in particular Blue. Japanese companies are always much more driven to continue to produce something that their own consumers will continue to purchase. While there is some initiative to gain that global market, it doesn't seem to be as high on the agenda.

I still love more Japanese Style RPGs. I think they have started to show signs of change in a way. Everyone is quick to point out the traditional-turn based style game as a Japanese RPG. However there are games like Valkyria Chronicles and Hyperdimension Neptunia (from what I can gather) that aren't as typical as everyone is led to believe. Heck, even thought the SMT series is pretty traditional, it's extremely mature and over the top.

JRPGs won't likely completely die out. Just as was the case before the large explosion during the PSX days, there were a fair number of RPGs before that time. There is a chance that they could become very popular again in the future. It all depends on how each generation of gamer (not just console) registers with the games they play.

Athough I have to say that I am pretty sad that both The Last Story and Xenoblade don't seem to be getting anywhere close to an international release date anytime soon. I hope that will change.

[Priest4hire]

Everyone is quick to point out the traditional-turn based style game as a Japanese RPG.

What? You mean like Wizardry? One of these days I'll have to rack my brain and come up with something on the irony that the traditional JRPG turn-based combat system is from Wizardry of all places.

I'll admit that I have something of a love/hate relationship with the genre. Take SMT for example. I've played a number of the games and have enjoyed them. But damn did Strange Journey rub me the wrong way right out of the gate.

Part was how poorly modern weaponry worked in the old Wizardry combat system. But the thing that really steamed me was the way they tried to work the classic 'pay to be healed inn' mechanic in. When the doctor made the spiel about how power isn't free my jaw just about hit the floor. I've seen some stupid crap in games but this really took the cake. I couldn't even begin to list all the ways that was awesomely moronic.

[Sushi_b]

What? You mean like Wizardry? One of these days I'll have to rack my brain and come up with something on the irony that the traditional JRPG turn-based combat system is from Wizardry of all places.



Which is where Dragon Quest got many of it's ideas if I remember correctly. Hoji was really into Wizardry and wanted to create something similar and Dragon Quest was born from that. I'm pretty sure that's how it went.

I wasn't trying to discredit Wizardry or anything before it that was turn-based, but it seems that most people point to Japanese RPGs as being all the same with monotonous turn based combat.

[LunarGriever]

I think the problem with the JRPG market these days is that ever since the PS2 era, and even somewhat during, developers have been taking more and more control away from the players.

Everything just seems to streamlined now. This is a problem, to some extent, with the entire industry, but I see JRPGs as the worst offenders. I mean when was the last time you play a JRPG on either the 360 or PS3 that even had an overworld? Outside of the Vesperia I don't think I can name one...

That being said I do think Japanese SRPGs have, for the most part, gotten better and better. Valkyria Chronicles is probably the best JRPG I've played since the PS1 era.

[CoolOtaku]

I don't think I'll ever understand the appeal of any of the popular JRPG's from this generation (aside from my beloved Demon's Souls as well as Disgaea 3). I look at most of them and I can tell almost immediately that I would not enjoy them.

I feel like there's just been a ton of mediocre stuff.

Radiant Historia has so far impressed me and made me very happy that I bought it on a whim, but I don't hear too much about it surprisingly.

As for Western RPG's this gen, I don't think I've even played through any of them (not counting demos, of course). It's not that they haven't appealed to me, rather that they just haven't appealed to me enough to warrant my spending lots of time on them.

[Sushi_b]

Everything just seems to streamlined now. This is a problem, to some extent, with the entire industry, but I see JRPGs as the worst offenders. I mean when was the last time you play a JRPG on either the 360 or PS3 that even had an overworld? Outside of the Vesperia I don't think I can name one...
.

I haven't played too many JRPGs this generation but both Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey had world maps. However, I have heard that there has been a shift towards more menus and text instead of exploration in JRPGs. Which is very odd considering that was not usually the case before. One of the only games I can think of that didn't have a map to explore was the Grandia series. I wonder what is making developers think that more and more linear is better.

[LunarGriever]

I haven't played too many JRPGs this generation but both Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey had world maps. However, I have heard that there has been a shift towards more menus and text instead of exploration in JRPGs. Which is very odd considering that was not usually the case before. One of the only games I can think of that didn't have a map to explore was the Grandia series. I wonder what is making developers think that more and more linear is better.

This may sound kind of dumb, but I think part of the reason JRPGs have gotten so linear is because developers are trying too hard to make it all about story. Epic stories are great, they are the reason we play RPGs usually, however even the greatest story ever can be ruined by crappy gameplay. And I feel like that's really what has been happening to JRPGs.

[Sen]

I am at odds with western RPGs and have a hard time getting into them, but not for lack of trying. Like just two weeks ago I made an attempt at Dragon Age: Origins and pretty much hated it. My problem is that western developers put a huge emphasis on freedom, with truly massive worlds to explore and blank slate characters meant for you to shape however you will. The prospect of a personal RPG experience is very appealing, but I too often find that my own adventure struggles to be interesting without much focus. That's not to say I won't continually try out western RPGs -- I actually intend to either begin Fallout: New Vegas or take a second crack at Mass Effect as soon as I finish the current game I'm playing. But it does seem that JRPGs offer the scripted direction that my personality apparently needs, though an over-reliance on anime stereotypes has made them particularly off-putting in recent years.

[Sushi_b]

This may sound kind of dumb, but I think part of the reason JRPGs have gotten so linear is because developers are trying too hard to make it all about story. Epic stories are great, they are the reason we play RPGs usually, however even the greatest story ever can be ruined by crappy gameplay. And I feel like that's really what has been happening to JRPGs.

That could be a point to take note of. It always seemed as though the story was a focal point in RPGs of previous generations, yet they didn't seem to sacrifice the experience of exploration and creativity. Where as other genres are encouraging a player to find multiple solutions, most RPGs are not. It's almost as if the developers don't want a player to think too far beyond a simple format laid before them. A few games do allow for things such as alchemy to build items and weapons, but little beyond that generally.

[CoolOtaku]

an over-reliance on anime stereotypes has made them particularly off-putting in recent years.

This is a sentiment I definitely share. In fact, I think I'll take it a step further and say that non-2D games that model their characters to look like cel-shaded versions of anime characters annoy the hell out of me. Not only do they tend to look horrible but I can't think of a single example of their personalities not being incredibly aggravating.

[LunarGriever]

I also think that JRPGs have lost their way, in part, because other genre's have stolen the best parts of RPGs and combined them with better game play. Once upon a time, if you wanted a great story, or interesting characters, you had to play an RPG. There simply were no other options. Today, however, A LOT of games in all genre's have awesome stories, and great characters. And, as I said before, they do all this with far superior game play.

JRPGs just feel like they have stagnated too much. No body is trying anything new... Of course that is kind of indicative of the Japanese market as a whole. Look at a list of the most interesting, or different games of the last decade. On that list you will find games like Valkyrie Profile, Valkyria Chronicles, Okami, and tons others. My point is, a lot of those games, despite being very very well reviewed, simply didn't sell all that well. This has been true of the Japanese market since the beginning, customers have show that rather than something new, and different (i.e. Zelda 2, Mario 2, Castlevania 2) they really prefer sequels that refine, rather than redefine.

[Cyrus the virus]

I think that JRPGs can still be popular and be very good. I think the industry still has a niche to fill, and that is the traditional-style RPG. Not necessarily turn-based, but something like Tales of the Abyss/Vesperia works just perfectly in terms of being modern but also catering to the old-school-crowd.

My main issue with JRPGs these days is the melodrama. FFXIII is the best example. It feels like most of the characters in that game are overly emotional and has some deep personal turmoil to overcome and it's all presented in an overly sappy melodramatic way with sad music and urrghhh.

[Sen]

I can't think of a single example of their personalities not being incredibly aggravating.
I think a lot of this has to do with extensive voicework becoming commonplace last generation. Those anime stereotypes reached new levels of irritation when the genre's overly dramatic dialogue became spoken aloud, and really drew attention to the sissy elements that were relatively hidden when it was all just text to be read.

[CoolOtaku]

Hahaha, you may have a point there, Sen. The sissy elements can really kill the experience when you have to hear someone poorly voice act it at you.

[Sushi_b]

This has been true of the Japanese market since the beginning, customers have show that rather than something new, and different (i.e. Zelda 2, Mario 2, Castlevania 2) they really prefer sequels that refine, rather than redefine.

I wouldn't only put the Japanese consumers in that type of category alone. Look at most of the FPS games in North America. They are following pretty much the same formula with a few tweaks here and there and they are always gobbled up in the millions.

It's the cycle that can't be broken. Gamers complain that there isn't any innovation in a game series. A new game comes out and dramatically changes what was previously done. Gamers complain that the game isn't like the original before it. You just can't win.