Love

[Hyde]

Okay, so..I'm tryin' like hell to shake this funk I'm in.

A couple days ago was the 2 year anniversary of a girl coming back into my life...a girl I was in love with for a long LONG damned time, who then re-found me through MySpace through a fluke..(See kids? MySpace CAN be useful at times...). The two of us were back together after that almost INSTANTLY, and it was the kind of passion and love that burns hot, and burns a long time.

A few months later, without so much as ANY change at all in the disposition of the relationship, she disappeared off the face of the earth.....

No warning. No explanation. No anything. She was just....*snap* gone.

I tried emailing. Nothing. Tried calling her. Nothing. I tried to move on, but never really got over it, because when I say "I love you" that doesn't change, and that was even MORE SO for this girl...she was my other half, and I thought I lost her once....and now I watched helplessly as I lost her again.

I didn't really hear from her for well over a year. I think in that span of time(somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 or 15 months) I got one or two emails trying vaguely, and curtly, to explain without explaining. But after that 14th or 15th month, I got a message on myspace, and a call followed shortly thereafter. Still barely explaining but essentially telling me that despite her previous attitude where she wanted to be with me essentially permanently(we had, at length, discussed buying a house and such...) that I should just forget her and all...

That was several months ago now. I can't remember how many, or when it was. Still, I miss this girl. I love her. If she called me right now and asked me to take her back, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I know I'm a fool. I know it's dumb, so please no "You're better off" messages. I get it. I don't really know whether or not I agree, but I get it...

But anyway, part of this thread was to get it out a bit...needed to write it all out...but....it was meant to start a thread to ask a question....about Love. So here's the real topic....

What does LOVE(and I do mean romantic love(as for a spouse) or platonic love(as for a friend), but not familial love)...What does LOVE mean to you? When you say it, how willing are you to follow it wherever it goes? If they break your heart, do you stop loving them? Do you ever, HAVE you ever, fall/fallen out of love?

[Devil King]

Dude, I know that feeling very well. I was talking to this girl that I really liked. We shared so many of the same interests, I mean we likd the same movies, same music, books, everything. We had some pretty stimulating conversations, as well. The connection and chemistry was definately there, or so I thought. She would text me a lot, so I would text her a lot until one day she didn't reply back at all. I don't know what the f*ck happened, but it pissed the hell out of me. The same crap continued for about a week, when she told me that she was 'busy' with her family. I mean I can understand that, but she shouldn't completely ignore someone she supposedly likes. Pretty f*cked up to say the least. For the time, I was really deppressed, but I got over here. I started talking to another girl, but right when everything goes well, Vanessa (the girl I first started talking to) text me saying she missed me. Girls... go figure.

I've been in love before, with people that didn't love me back. One day I hope to find myself in a relationship where the feeling is reciprocated.

[Phakiel]

Love is pain, is the horrible need to be with that person and no other substitution in life can make up if you are not with that person. Whenever you are apart it feels like there is a hole in your very soul, buried deep and with no way to fill it but being with the person.

Love is needing that person to just be with you, its one of the most horrible feelings in life, if not THE worst.

[Cyrus the virus]

Love is difficult to define. It's as frustrating as a rubik's cube. But you can't control it or tame it. Pretty neat.

Lame cliches aside, love is essential for everyone - in some way or another. It's something everyone wants... in some way or another! Hard to describe.

[Jarrid]

I will find it all out by the end of next week.

[Indigo]

I say the words "I love you" way too often which I guess makes them lose their meaning. I trying to change that. My love right now is on stand by. And I don't really know what to do. My girl in on holiday in Florida right now and will come back in about 2 weeks, she's been away for about 3 weeks and I can't stand the wait.


My problem with love is that I get ahead of myself a lot. I start loving the person before you can say that I'm in a relationship with her and do nothing to hide it. I've had romance in 3 out of 5 relationships. The other 2 went pretty quick.

I'll have another break up soon enough because me and my current grilfriend are going separate ways, and university life will have the best of us. I can't stand the thought of not being with Fiona anymore but I know we can't go on when we will barely be able to see each other.

[Raidou]

Saying "I love you" to someone is not a small matter for most people over here. It is seldom express even among those in our close family. FE, you cannot simply utter that three little word to just anyone without thinking much of being responsible for it.

Anyway, in order to love, one need to learn how to give, rather than to take. A lot of courage and sacrifices are needed. One need to be beyond self, me, and I kind of thinking. Big commitment and responsiblity. Also, the maintenence part of love is the most difficult. One may be able to be with a person physically to love, but it is much harder to get someone to love you true heartedly with the mind and soul. Love that does not grow have no meaning. These are how I look at the word love.

Experience of falling out of love? Yup, but I rather not talk about it again. It hurts....

[LagDragon]

I've been in love 3 times in my life. And no, I don't think it ever goes away. I still get butterflies in my stomache when I see any of my two ex's I was in love with.

[Baby]

Been in love twice. One was idle and empty and very short with an ending in sight. Now it's just vibrant and consuming and frantic and all-'round rewarding.

I think it's the state of wanting and being and always wanting to be around that person no matter what happens, no matter what they do. It's forgiving. It's feeling that someone out there completes you and feeling that you're cared for and important. Unfortunately, it's always full of surprises, comes from the most unlikely places and lingers around for a lifetime... with many questions hanging!

[charolastra00]

When someone you love just drops off the face of the earth, it's the worst feeling in the world. I was with a guy for a very short time before he moved. I explicitly told him that I would sleep with him whether he wanted to continue on the relationship after he left but that he needed to be honest with me about what he was feeling. He acted like he was completely in love with me and spoke of a future together-- I even almost gave up Iceland in order to spend the summer with him in Chile.

So he moved and pretty much stopped talking to me. I sent him an email telling him that he needed to tell me if he didn't want to speak to me again because I needed closure. He called me and told me he had handled it badly and still wanted to see me again and to work something out. So things were fine for a few weeks, and then he stopped talking to me again. I knew he was going through a hard time in life in general (in the few months that I knew him, he gave the eulogy at 4 funerals including that of a child who committed suicide and, most recently, a friend who was murdered by his girlfriend) so I backed off. A few weeks later, I see on his livejournal (which I was friends with him on.. so it's not like he didn't know I saw it) that he is now dating another girl.

It still just completely rips me apart to think about it. I didn't leave my dorm room for 4 months and even gave up trips over spring break and such simply because I was so depressed. It's not even WHAT happened, but how it happened. The least he could have done was had the decency to be straight with me and tell me he was no longer interested. In the end, after I found out the other girl, I sent him a long email completely lambasting him. He deserved it, but what I really wish I could do is break his arms. No one has the right to treat another human being so badly and think that they can get away with it without any blemish upon themselves. I still run everything with him through my head- maybe I should have called, maybe I should have jumped on a plane to Florida, maybe I never should have told him I loved him. But in reality, I don't think I did anything wrong. I offered him space and he didn't take it... rather he violently pushed his way out. Sometimes I wonder if I was just an experiment to him to see how much of an effect he could have on someone and how much trust he could get and then trample.

When I got home from school, I thought I'd just date casually. I found a guy who I thought was the polar opposite of the first guy (who in my mind was perfect for me at the time) so it would be someone who I would never get attached to on that level. That turned out to be wrong :P I'm going to be studying abroad all of next year and still have a year of school after that out of state, so I don't think it will work out. He has expressed the desire to move to Boston but he has two kids whose mother already tries to limit his time with them despite the fact that he lives 5 minutes away. I would never let him move away. So that's all really up in the air right now. I know he doesn't love me the same way that I love him but at least we're very open about it and we have great communication as to what our needs, wants, and expectations are. He's one of the first people who has ever told me to my face that I'm guarded and not pressured me to be otherwise.

That's not really answering the question and probably way more than anyone wants to know, but I needed to vent. :P

[Inari]

To me, "to love" is to put someone else ahead of yourself in your thoughts and in your actions. To be conscientious of someone else's needs and desires. In my eyes, love isn't something you feel, it's something you do.

Anyone can feel attraction, attachment, and desire for someone else. But whether or not you can truly love someone has more to do with your own capacity for selflessness.

[Matron]

Love is a pain in the ass. You'll be tooling along, thinking everything is just fine, then you get up and your husband is cleaning. In my case that is never a good thing, and means he is thinking, and when he starts thinking, things usually start to go bad.

I've always fallen kinda easy, but waited too long to tell anyone. As far as real love, it's only happened a few times in my life, the rest were puppy love kind of thing, easy to get over and forget about. But real love, no, you never really get over it, it haunts you when you least expect it. But it does get easier, and after a while (sometimes a long while) you realize you hardly ever think about the other person anymore, and when you do, it's just to hope that they are happy.

[Cyrus the virus]

I start loving the person before you can say that I'm in a relationship with her

I think you have much to learn, sir! This doesn't really sound like love to me. I think love is a somewhat gradual development. But I know exactly how it feels to be infatuated and to want to say I love you. I dunno.

I still get butterflies in my stomache when I see any of my two ex's I was in love with.

Oh thank god. I was really hoping this happened to other people. Considering how my ex and I broke up and our limited communication now, it's weird that I feel that way when I see her.

[LagDragon]

Same here. One time I almost felt light headed. I hadn't seen her in over a year, and then out of nowhere she was walking towards me with a new boyfriend. I wasn't jealous or anything. Actually, he wasn't very good looking, so it kind of made my day.

Hehe, I'm a dick. I know.

[King Zeal]

What does LOVE(and I do mean romantic love(as for a spouse) or platonic love(as for a friend), but not familial love)...What does LOVE mean to you? When you say it, how willing are you to follow it wherever it goes? If they break your heart, do you stop loving them? Do you ever, HAVE you ever, fall/fallen out of love?

What "love" means to me, to sum it as succinctly as I possibly can, is to want the best for another person, regardless of any flaws they have or wrongs they have done. Included in the "wrong" department would be things like failure to return your feelings.

I've only been in love with someone once in my entire life. I still think about her all the time, and sometimes talk to her. I don't think it'll ever be possible to get over that...giving someone such a large portion of your persona means that no matter what happens, you won't be exactly the game.

[Less Than Liz]

I've never been in love. I'm a self-involved commitaphobe who is usually the person who drops off the face of the earth. I give a heads up and an explanation though.

[Atlas]

When someone you love just drops off the face of the earth, it's the worst feeling in the world. I was with a guy for a very short time before he moved. I explicitly told him that I would sleep with him whether he wanted to continue on the relationship after he left but that he needed to be honest with me about what he was feeling. He acted like he was completely in love with me and spoke of a future together-- I even almost gave up Iceland in order to spend the summer with him in Chile.

So he moved and pretty much stopped talking to me. I sent him an email telling him that he needed to tell me if he didn't want to speak to me again because I needed closure. He called me and told me he had handled it badly and still wanted to see me again and to work something out. So things were fine for a few weeks, and then he stopped talking to me again. I knew he was going through a hard time in life in general (in the few months that I knew him, he gave the eulogy at 4 funerals including that of a child who committed suicide and, most recently, a friend who was murdered by his girlfriend) so I backed off. A few weeks later, I see on his livejournal (which I was friends with him on.. so it's not like he didn't know I saw it) that he is now dating another girl.

It still just completely rips me apart to think about it. I didn't leave my dorm room for 4 months and even gave up trips over spring break and such simply because I was so depressed. It's not even WHAT happened, but how it happened. The least he could have done was had the decency to be straight with me and tell me he was no longer interested. In the end, after I found out the other girl, I sent him a long email completely lambasting him. He deserved it, but what I really wish I could do is break his arms. No one has the right to treat another human being so badly and think that they can get away with it without any blemish upon themselves. I still run everything with him through my head- maybe I should have called, maybe I should have jumped on a plane to Florida, maybe I never should have told him I loved him. But in reality, I don't think I did anything wrong. I offered him space and he didn't take it... rather he violently pushed his way out. Sometimes I wonder if I was just an experiment to him to see how much of an effect he could have on someone and how much trust he could get and then trample.

When I got home from school, I thought I'd just date casually. I found a guy who I thought was the polar opposite of the first guy (who in my mind was perfect for me at the time) so it would be someone who I would never get attached to on that level. That turned out to be wrong :P I'm going to be studying abroad all of next year and still have a year of school after that out of state, so I don't think it will work out. He has expressed the desire to move to Boston but he has two kids whose mother already tries to limit his time with them despite the fact that he lives 5 minutes away. I would never let him move away. So that's all really up in the air right now. I know he doesn't love me the same way that I love him but at least we're very open about it and we have great communication as to what our needs, wants, and expectations are. He's one of the first people who has ever told me to my face that I'm guarded and not pressured me to be otherwise.

That's not really answering the question and probably way more than anyone wants to know, but I needed to vent. :P


I am so very sorry to hear about your plight in the first couple paragraphs. Love is hard to deal with, especially when the love you feel for another isn't expressed or even felt by the opposite party. Knowing myself, I probably would have become a hermit, as well. Glad to hear you've moved on.

[Polygon]

I fell in love once. We never dated. It was high school, freshman year, and I was too much of a social retard mixed with being very shy to ask her out. We were good friends. I had the suspicion she had feelings for me. She ended up moving out of state and I never heard from her again.

It's too bad. I still think about her from time to time. Then again I don't really know if that was love or infatuation. Regardless, since her I've never had feeling that strong for anyone else.

[Cyrus the virus]

What "love" means to me, to sum it as succinctly as I possibly can, is to want the best for another person, regardless of any flaws they have or wrongs they have done.

I think this is a pretty great definition, Zeal, and it's consistent with my feelings and experiences.

I've never been in love. I'm a self-involved commitaphobe who is usually the person who drops off the face of the earth. I give a heads up and an explanation though.

Snake would fix you. All you need to do is find his real-life equivalent! Fun.

[Phakiel]

I m still in love with the first girl that I fell in love with when I was 14. I ran into her about 2 years ago.

You know those scenes in movies with the guy with a crush bumps into "the girl" and he just stares at her as she walks away from him and doesnt look back? Well that was just how it happened. I was tipsy as I tend to be most of the time while out and about, and I saw her gently pass by while I was at the benches of this basketball stadium at my old college campus.

I saw her and couldnt believe it because for years I have been always duped, even when on my full senses by girls that resemble her. I think I was talking to a friend and then just went and followed her and asked "Are you Carolina" and she started pretending she wasnt. as I was tipsy and had been wrong before I believed her but then she started laughing and I said "Its me, Moncho (spanish nickname for Ramon)" and she went "I know, I remember".

And that was it, she got grabbed by her friends and rushed out of the crowded stadium and out of my life, again.

Now its coming down to the 10 year anniversary of when i fell in love, i remember just sitting behind her in class and play with her beautiful long black hair, she had this smell, she smelled like...I dont know, baby candy powder? I dont know what perfume it was but everyday i remember being eager to go to school just so I could smell her perfume and touch her hair.

She was insane too. She used to punch me, like you know girls do, but she was just...different, more physical and playful than normal girls and also more strong.

Love ****ing sucks.

[Hyde]

Love ****ing sucks.

Amen, brother..

[Atlas]

I've been in love a good amount of times. Hopefully someday I'll find someone who'll work with all of my problems, somebody who will allow me to be me(and slap me at times).

As far as plutonic love goes, I've experienced this with a couple of my friends. They know who they are.

[Cyrus the virus]

plutonic love

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r304/Cyruslevirus/url.jpg?t=1214971592

[Devil King]

Hahahahaha.

Nice one.

[Atlas]

Well, Hyde said to include it. Hmm, and far be it from me to confuse plutonic love with sexual love.

[Matron]

Platonic, babe.

[Atlas]

Oh yeah... that one. ^_^

[Cyrus the virus]

My post took a lot of effort! Laugh at it.

[Phakiel]

I am laughing at all of them if it makes you feel ok Cyrus.

[Hyde]

My post took a lot of effort! Laugh at it.

I enjoyed it.

[Jarrid]

Well, I told my girl that I loved her over the phone tons of times, but I finally saw and was around her for the first time in about four years. No, we have not been together for four years, but she actually use to live here, and now she lives out in Arizona. We have been talking for about a month or so now, which does not seem long to me at all considering I wanted to take my time. Though, it did not end up that way. We hit it off extremely fast, but we had always had strong feelings for each other going way back. Being around her and holding her has given me one of the happiest feelings in my entire life. I am love struck. We both could not stop smiling at each other, and it was absolutely beautiful. I really had doubts about the whole entire thing at first, and I was not sure if I was ready to have somebody like that in my life, but I feel completely different now. She is the sunshine that I would love to see everyday when I wake up.

The week has just begun, so the fun has not even started yet. ;)

[Cyrus the virus]

I enjoyed it.

:)

Topic: I feel like I'm falling in love. How nice.

[Atlas]

I feel so smrt lulz

[Matron]

:)

Topic: I feel like I'm falling in love. How nice.


Isn't new love the greatest thing ever? Well, when it all goes well anyway.

[Cyrus the virus]

Yes'm!

[Hyde]

Yes'm!

<3 I think I'm starting to love you too. Marry me? We can go to California.

[Phakiel]

YAY a gay wedding!

[Atlas]

I live in Cali. Come chill wit me in da club.

[Cyrus the virus]

<3 I think I'm starting to love you too. Marry me? We can go to California.

Okay :) But we don't invite my uncle, he'd never support it. Bring the chick with the blue hair in your avatar. For the honeymoon!

[Matron]

You fguys are funny.

[Devil King]

Hahahaha.

Atlas, your post reminded me of some kind of gangsta

'I'm in da club layin' down some bloods.'

[Mary]

I tell guys I love them to get them in bed.

[Matron]

LOL, I thought most guys ran the other way when you told them you loved them.

[Mary]

Weird huh? I somehow always find myself in situations with guys who won't sleep with a girl they're not in love with. Luckily I'm easy to love :)

I've been in love twice in my life and they were both a while ago.

[Matron]

Somehow, Lust is easier to deal with than love, lol. No pesky emotions involved, emotions are what get you in trouble every time.

[Cyrus the virus]

I somehow always find myself in situations with guys who won't sleep with a girl they're not in love with.

Are you dating 16 year olds? Hm.

[Atlas]

Hahahaha.

Atlas, your post reminded me of some kind of gangsta

'I'm in da club layin' down some bloods.'

You roll on the left side? Yeah, that's the cript side.

Droppit lyke iz hawt.

OqiYV8VdVVk

[Phakiel]

Are you dating 16 year olds? Hm.

Or 60 year olds. Seriously, what kind of guy would only go to bed with women he loves? This aint a Meg Ryan movie.

If I had only had sex with women after they told me they loved me, i would still be a virgin.

[Hyde]

Or 60 year olds. Seriously, what kind of guy would only go to bed with women he loves? This aint a Meg Ryan movie.

Laugh of the day, right here. NOTHING will top this.

[Indigo]

Or 60 year olds. Seriously, what kind of guy would only go to bed with women he loves? This aint a Meg Ryan movie.

If I had only had sex with women after they told me they loved me, i would still be a virgin.

No comment :(

[Blackdragon]

Or 60 year olds. Seriously, what kind of guy would only go to bed with women he loves? This aint a Meg Ryan movie.

If I had only had sex with women after they told me they loved me, i would still be a virgin.

I happen to be one of those kind of guys, and there's really nothing wrong with that in the least.

I've only been in love twice, plus a shit load of crushes. First one as I've explained in another thread didn't exactly end as it should have (Email breakup, oh joy!), but for a while I couldn't get over that one. I fell into a small state of depression and begun writing to help ease the feelings inside.

Then there's the woman I'm with now, who I'm currently living with, and planning our wedding with. We've been together now for 4 1/2 years, and I must say they are the happiest of my life since early childhood. Things aren't always peachy keen between us, but that's all part of what love is. Learning to side aside small indifferences, and looking past faults a person has. We've been through some tough times, but I can see us lasting for a very long time.

[Polygon]

Or 60 year olds. Seriously, what kind of guy would only go to bed with women he loves? This aint a Meg Ryan movie.

If I had only had sex with women after they told me they loved me, i would still be a virgin.

So, in other words, you'd be me? Also, I'm seriously trying to find a Meg Ryan movie that doesn't fit your stereotype and I can't disqualify your statement.

Hilarious. :D

[Phakiel]

So, in other words, you'd be me? Also, I'm seriously trying to find a Meg Ryan movie that doesn't fit your stereotype and I can't disqualify your statement.

Hilarious. :D

Is not that hard

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/In-The-Cut-Poster-C10110334.jpeg

Incidentally one of the movies that has made me gag when the nudity came up.

[Indigo]

Even though the argument here was pretty much against me I was enjoying it.

Let's resume what happened shall we?

Me- "yeah I'm abstinent wut? have a problem"

Heru- "you see naked woman, you do naked woman"

Cyrus- "DOUCHE BAGS"

Me- "I see naked woman, I run, why? DISCIPLINE!
But I may change."

Polygon- " I didn't change, you wont change"

Jarvolt- *says something about discipline*

Hyde- "I'd do anything!"

Atlas- "Anything includes men?"

Me- *criticisms Christianity for not accepting man on man action... In a vague manner which leads to no one to understanding.*

Everyone starts talking about how sex is important in a relationship.

Liz- "Y U abstinent?"

And we pretty much left off there.

[Matron]

Hehe nice recap.

[Indigo]

Liz- "Y U abstinent?"




Well basically me and Polygon are Mormon. And in the Mormon religion abstinence is included in the law of chastity which states that you must abstain from sexual activity until marriage, and you must not have any sexual activity with anyone of the same sex. Breaking this law has consequences just as bad as if one were to commit murder, and this consequence is eternal damnation, period. So you must understand why we must hold on so tight to this law, we have no choice.

I'm not a very good Mormon. And to be honest I don't like this religion. But I have become a member when I was 8 after being baptized, not of my own will but because my parents made me. That was just the first. I was also pressured into taking covenants with drastic consequences. I don't like it and I don't like the way these thinks make me struggle with myself. But I have to keep attending this religion because part of me will always say it's the truth because I was taught this from the day I was born. I'll probably keep on attending church and doing all these things and try to be my best because of my fear. But I will not let my children know about this religion so they don't have to go through as much suffering as me.

[Brokensouls91]

...I feel for you Emanuel...But I know exactly what you go through...What i don't get, Is why you won't leave the religeon with me? Anyway, abstinance? I think it's good to wait until you're sure you'll only be with one partner...Multiple partners just leads to trouble...

[Indigo]

Because I'm unsure....

[Matron]

Well, it would be wrong to do something you might regret, so don't make any decisions at all until you are more sure of what you really want.

I see nothing at all wrong with wanting to wait to have sex, however, you just can't know how compatible you are in the bedroom until you go there, and if you are already married, and then find out that that area of your relationship doesn't work, you're kinda screwed, and not in the fun way. Breaking up is hard, but breaking up a marriage is about a hundred times harder, especially if you wait until kids become involved.

[Cyrus the virus]

My douche rant is gone :(

[Matron]

I'm sure you'll have ample occasion to make another douche rant soon.

[Inari]

I have to keep attending this religion because part of me will always say it's the truth because I was taught this from the day I was born.
If it helps any, the 5% of your brain that insists Mormonism is the truth isn't actually the part that knows the difference between truth and fiction. It's the part of your brain that makes you forget you're looking at a screen when you're watching a movie.

Also, I was raised Catholic from the day I was born, and I never forgot the fact that I was "watching a movie". I did, however, believe that Santa's sleigh broke down on the side of the road and my dad had to help him fix it.

[Liam McDohl]

My douche rant is gone :(

Yeah, what's up with the disappearing posts?


I'm not a very good Mormon. And to be honest I don't like this religion. But I have become a member when I was 8 after being baptized, not of my own will but because my parents made me. That was just the first. I was also pressured into taking covenants with drastic consequences. I don't like it and I don't like the way these thinks make me struggle with myself. But I have to keep attending this religion because part of me will always say it's the truth because I was taught this from the day I was born. I'll probably keep on attending church and doing all these things and try to be my best because of my fear. But I will not let my children know about this religion so they don't have to go through as much suffering as me.

This is why I'd outlaw teaching kiddies religion if it were possible :D

[Matron]

Hyde was having a few issues this morning. It's in the announcements.

[Indigo]

This is why I'd outlaw teaching kiddies religion if it were possible :D

Where do I sign the petition? ... I'm serious.


If it helps any, the 5% of your brain that insists Mormonism is the truth isn't actually the part that knows the difference between truth and fiction. It's the part of your brain that makes you forget you're looking at a screen when you're watching a movie.

Also, I was raised Catholic from the day I was born, and I never forgot the fact that I was "watching a movie". I did, however, believe that Santa's sleigh broke down on the side of the road and my dad had to help him fix it.

I have to look into that. Very consoling words as far as you usually go Inari. Thanks.

[Phakiel]

I was raised catholic. Basically the way I see it, I can ccontinue living a morally corrupt existence and just ask for forgiveness when I am dying at the last rites or like a couple months before that to a priest in a confession booth. Man, is that priest gonna have a field day with what I would confess too, he is gonna put me to pray for 4 days straight.

[Indigo]

I was raised catholic. Basically the way I see it, I can ccontinue living a morally corrupt existence and just ask for forgiveness when I am dying at the last rites or like a couple months before that to a priest in a confession booth. Man, is that priest gonna have a field day with what I would confess too, he is gonna put me to pray for 4 days straight.

If only my my religion was that easy.

[Atlas]

What religion are you a part of, FE? If you don't mind me asking, of course...

[Indigo]

Mormon. I mentioned it a few times :p

[Phakiel]

Yeah, ****ing mormons. I guess that if mormons just sticked to their own shit, abstinence and mutiple wives (on some clicks) or whatever, instead of waking you up at 7 am on a sunday morning, with their little short sleaved white shirts and *** ties, always in pairs, I wouldnt hate them so much.

Other than that, I thought Big Love ****ing ruled.

[Indigo]

Yeah, ****ing mormons. I guess that if mormons just sticked to their own shit, abstinence and mutiple wives (on some clicks) or whatever, instead of waking you up at 7 am on a sunday morning, with their little short sleaved white shirts and *** ties, always in pairs, I wouldnt hate them so much.

Other than that, I thought Big Love ****ing ruled.

Not the multiple wife thing again. That only happened a long time ago after the pioneers arduous trip till salt lake after a majority of wifes lost their husbands and it was only for support. The Polygamists that call that still call themselves Mormons are fakes.

And those two guys you see at 7 am are called missionaries. They are 18-20 year old men or 21-23 year old women who leave their homes to some far away place so they can share our doctrine, they're nice people, I had to go teaching with them and let me tell you something, you don't know rejection until you're a missionary. I respect them, but pity them at the same time

[Phakiel]

Not the multiple wife thing again. That only happened a long time ago after the pioneers arduous trip till salt lake after a majority of wifes lost their husbands and it was only for support. The Polygamists that call that still call themselves Mormons are fakes.

And those two guys you see at 7 am are called missionaries. They are 18-20 year old men or 21-23 year old women who leave their homes to some far away place so they can share our doctrine, they're nice people, I had to go teaching with them and let me tell you something, you don't know rejection until you're a missionary. I respect them, but pity them at the same time

Oh no sir, no way. Bill Paxton did a three season (so far) series about mormons and poligamy and that very much seemed like a real life retelling of how a man in Utah can have three wives and a ****load of kids and really mean antagonist as the leader of a pretty big mormon comune.

Are you calling Bill Paxton a liar sir? Because i tell you this thing right here, Bill Paxton might be a lotof things but he aint certainly a liar.

Shame on you!

[Indigo]

Oh no sir, no way. Bill Paxton did a three season (so far) series about mormons and poligamy and that very much seemed like a real life retelling of how a man in Utah can have three wives and a ****load of kids and really mean antagonist as the leader of a pretty big mormon comune.

Are you calling Bill Paxton a liar sir? Because i tell you this thing right here, Bill Paxton might be a lotof things but he aint certainly a liar.

Shame on you!

We've had this conversation before. A long time ago. I think their the same words as well.

I lol'd though.

[Phakiel]

The chick that played his older daughter who was also on Mean Girls is pretty hot. I'd plug her.

[DrunkSwashbuckler]

A European Mormon?! The ****?!

[Phakiel]

Yeah, i found that weird too but hey, the bastards are always traveling and shit with their short sleeves and ***gy ties, I guess not everybody shuts their doors to them, even in Europe.

[DrunkSwashbuckler]

It's more the concept of a European adopting the American-centric ideology of Mormonism that baffles me.

[Phakiel]

Some americans like oriental crap as well, but then again americans do tend to be gullible and easy to sway into "cool" directions and spiritual awakening. Yeah, its weird to have europeans go mormon, particularly because why the prudes ran from Europe's debauchery like Cooper said on Eurotrip.

[Liam McDohl]

And those two guys you see at 7 am are called missionaries. They are 18-20 year old men or 21-23 year old women who leave their homes to some far away place so they can share our doctrine, they're nice people, I had to go teaching with them and let me tell you something, you don't know rejection until you're a missionary. I respect them, but pity them at the same time

If they were nice they wouldn't wake people up on a sunday morning =/

[Brokensouls91]

It's more the concept of a European adopting the American-centric ideology of Mormonism that baffles me.

Wow you're behind dude. We sent missionaries there long before you're parents were even thought of. The UK has a pretty high LDS concentration, and it's growing everywhere else...So...I must spread the word...DON"T JOIN THE CHURCH!!!

[Indigo]

Wow you're behind dude. We sent missionaries there long before you're parents were even thought of. The UK is has a pretty high LDS concentration, and it's growing everywhere else...So...I must spread the word...DON"T JOIN THE CHURCH!!!

Good call.

[DrunkSwashbuckler]

Wow you're behind dude. We sent missionaries there long before you're parents were even thought of. The UK has a pretty high LDS concentration, and it's growing everywhere else...So...I must spread the word...DON"T JOIN THE CHURCH!!!

You're missing the point; I'm not surprised that the LDS has sent missionaries, I'm surprised that there are portions of Europe that believe that America is God's land and that the Garden of Eden was located in Missouri. Europe thinks that America is self-centered enough and Mormonism is the religion that personifies that egoism.

[Indigo]

You're missing the point; I'm not surprised that the LDS has sent missionaries, I'm surprised that there are portions of Europe that believe that America is God's land and that the Garden of Eden was located in Missouri. Europe thinks that America is self-centered enough and Mormonism is the religion that personifies that egoism.

Since when is it America's God? and right after the LDS church was established in Salt lake the missionaries were sent to England, they didn't even go to other states in America until later. It's not an American religion, the person who started it is American, but that doesn't make it an American religion.

[charolastra00]

Not the multiple wife thing again. That only happened a long time ago after the pioneers arduous trip till salt lake after a majority of wifes lost their husbands and it was only for support. The Polygamists that call that still call themselves Mormons are fakes.

And those two guys you see at 7 am are called missionaries. They are 18-20 year old men or 21-23 year old women who leave their homes to some far away place so they can share our doctrine, they're nice people, I had to go teaching with them and let me tell you something, you don't know rejection until you're a missionary. I respect them, but pity them at the same time

Missionary and "nice people" are mutually exclusive. Good people do not become missionaries or prostylize, regardless of the religion. Insecure religions and insecure people are a different story however.

And I love making fun of them! (get it, nyuck nyuck)

[Brokensouls91]

...Missionaries are just people...There is nothing special about them other than they chose to serve their religion for two years in a foriegn country(or domestic). Making fun of them is like making fun of random strangers. Not every Mormon serves a mission, hell I plan on avoiding that pitfall, but those who do are just doing what they think helps people obtain a higher glory in the next life...

[charolastra00]

They make a poor choice. I have very little respect for people who are so insecure about themselves and their religion that they must harass people in their own homes. Any religion that suggests that it's a good idea to witness or be a missionary is a religion of which I have zero respect.

Jews are so much more chill.

[Hyde]

They make a poor choice. I have very little respect for people who are so insecure about themselves and their religion that they must harass people in their own homes. Any religion that suggests that it's a good idea to witness or be a missionary is a religion of which I have zero respect.

Jews are so much more chill.

And We Pagans are chillest of all.

We adopt a very hearty "Believe whatever you want, We actively encourage it!" attitude.....you know, so long as someone is pouring us Mead.

[Brokensouls91]

...Insecurity? Can you walk up to a random person and tell them all about your religion, and not only inform them, but try to bring them to your ways of thinking? I may not believe in the religion but to do something like that, takes balls. hell walkign through some areas takes balls by itself, but to do it looking like you go to church everday, talking to anyone who will listen about something the majority of people won't give a damn about, takes balls...Many would assume I was insecure with the religion, and they'd be right...I don't have the faith to serve two years away from home...

[Hyde]

...Insecurity? Can you walk up to a random person and tell them all about your religion, and not only inform them, but try to bring them to your ways of thinking? I may not believe in the religion but to do something like that, takes balls. hell walkign through some areas takes balls by itself, but to do it looking like you go to church everday, talking to anyone who will listen about something the majority of people won't give a damn about, takes balls...Many would assume I was insecure with the religion, and they'd be right...I don't have the faith to serve two years away from home...

Balls? Perhaps. Brains? Not so much.

As for all this thing about "Serving" by Witnessing and such....so far as I'm concerned, that's a crock of shit. Going door to door(or village to village) and preaching why your faith is better than whatever they've already got is exactly one of the things wrong with those religions.

[Brokensouls91]

...I'm not saying it's right. I'd rather people found their own faith, instead of being dragged into one, but to call them insecure is contradictory to what they left home to do.

Misguided...Maybe, who knows...
Insecure...Not likely...

[Hyde]

...I'm not saying it's right. I'd rather people found their own faith, instead of being dragged into one, but to call them insecure is contradictory to what they left home to do.

Misguided...Maybe, who knows...
Insecure...Not likely...

It's absolutely a form of insecurity....insecurity on a personal level, or on a church-wide level. To have to go an constantly recruit more and more members, to go from door to door waking people on Saturday Mornings(I love messing with these people)....it's a form of insecurity saying "We aren't happy with what we have as a community now, so we need to add to it."

I've seen a lot of religious bullshit and intolerance in my life. I've seen a kid get the shit kicked out of him in a Catholic High School because he wore a pentagram, and I was the only one who helped him.

Alot of Evangelicals are dangerous...as history keeps proving.

[DrunkSwashbuckler]

Since when is it America's God? and right after the LDS church was established in Salt lake the missionaries were sent to England, they didn't even go to other states in America until later. It's not an American religion, the person who started it is American, but that doesn't make it an American religion.

I was referring to the LDS belief that the Americas are a sort of holy land and that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri.

Go over your beliefs and the founding of the LDS; everything comes back to America. The lost tribe of Israel, who were apparently white, came over to America, Jesus was a white man, the Garden of Eden in Missouri, two seeing stones buried in America... Mormonism is American egoism at its highest. The only reason that the LDS doesn't get the bad rap that Scientology has is because they are, by and large, nice people.

[Brokensouls91]

Okay...Church wide I can see what you mean...But those who serve don't go out simply to add to their numbers. Those people really believe in what they teach. Dis the religion all you want but humor me by not disrespecting those who leave their families for something bigger than themselves...

[Indigo]

I don't think some of you realist what these people go through. In my eyes they are more victims than anything else. However they deserve as much respect as they can have. These 19 year olds leave their homes for 2 years with only a once a year opportunity of a phone call with their family and partners. These people have to endure two years of waking up every day at 5:30 am fallowed by a long reading of the book of Mormon and preparations for their lessons. Half of those days they go out and knock on a multitude of doors being rejected more that 99% of the time, but still keeping a smile on their face. Some are even assaulted because of their beliefs. They have to wear suits every day and they are deprived from listening to music or experiencing any kind of media. They work hard, and for what? an average of around 7 converted people per missionary? But the worse part is that they know what's coming to them before they do it, I don't know of anyone who could love a doctrine as much as these people. Someone who is this devoted deserves a medal.

And don't start going on about them being stupid to do such a thing, would you say someone who went to climb mount everest is stupid? I certainly wouldn't, I'd respect the person.


Hyde your last post contradicts itself simply because you criticized a group of people in the same manner as those school students who assaulted the student you helped.

Obviously these people see something in this religion that I fail to see.

[Phakiel]

Yeah, how about just letting people have their own beliefs and not try to convert them. Who cares if they sacrifice themselves, all they do is spread their views on the world on people who may or may not want to. At this point in civilization, if somebody is interested in a different set of beliefs they can just find out about it for themselves, not by having these bastards impose themselves onto them.

And somebody better talk about their crushes and love and shit before we derail even more from the topic.

[charolastra00]

FE- Who is holding a gun up to their head to make them do it? They are only victims of their own ignorance. And only talking to their parents once a year? We obviously have a different sort of Mormons in the US as all of my Mormon friends on mission trips have facebooks. ;)

Most well adjusted teenagers move out of home and live far away with little contact with their parents. I have only seen my parents twice a year since I was 18 and I will be in 3 foreign countries on my own (starting with Iceland now) by the time I'm 21. It's not a sacrifice, it's a choice.

[Atlas]

Every single day when I turn on the tube, the media tries to convert me to whatever they are believing at the moment. Whether it be regarding politics, cooking utensils, or religion, that is what the media is trying to do.

I'm a Christian... a non-denominational Christian is the best description, but the beliefs are probably closest to the Four-Square Church.

Anyways, my real point here is that I really don't mind it when LDS comes to my door. I'd rather share with them what I believe and visa versa... I mean, if nobody cared enough to talk about what they believe and just posted little flyers saying "Hey please come to our belief meeting because we don't want to offend you by actually talking to you!", it'd be useless.

I think it's pretty dumb, Hyde, that you're bashing on the LDS(yes that's what you're doing) for doing missionary work as they call it.

[Matron]

I don't have a problem with anyone else's religion, that is their own choice. What I do hate is the ones that go on and on, preaching and trying to "save" me, it just rubs me the wrong way. If that makes me bad or wrong, fine, it's not the first time I've been bad or wrong.

[charolastra00]

I've had bad experiences where people have made negative comments to me in my own home about religion. Normally it's just the Southern Baptists and JWs, but a pair of Mormons made some REALLY disparaging comments about my menorah once. I have no time or patience for anyone who goes door to door regardless of their religion. Sadly, it's only the Jesus-worshiping sorts that do such a thing. I have zero respect for people who CHOOSE to be a part of a religion that needs to sell itself, much less the people who do the actual selling.

[Hyde]

I have zero respect for people who CHOOSE to be a part of a religion that needs to sell itself, much less the people who do the actual selling.

Seconded.

[Inari]

I dunno, I guess the thing I dislike most about missionaries is that there's a factor of egocentrism there which is sort of veiled by the fact that they're "doing good work".

When someone's trying to convert you, they're not talking with you, they're talking to you about what they believe. And you can say oh they have balls for talking about what they believe in to people who don't want to hear it. Yeah it takes balls to put yourself out there and risk looking like an idiot or bothering people for something you believe in. It also takes an incredible threshhold for olfactory discomfort to drive a dump truck for a living but I'm pretty sure you've yet to go out and praise your neighborhood trash guy.

Plus, the entire premise of missionary work is that what they believe in is right. And whatever I believe in is going to get me a one way ticket straight to hell, so they need to "save" me. Or at least bolster their numbers.

ETA: Of course this is only coming from the perspective of my own personal reaction to these sorts of encounters. I wouldn't go so far as to say that all missionary work is bad and that it shouldn't be done and cultural/spiritual diversity should be preserved. If it weren't for Catholic missionaries I wouldn't even be typing in English right now, I'd be beating on a tree with a stick and living in a hut made of palm fronds or something.

[Hyde]

... I'd be beating on a tree with a stick and living in a hut made of palm fronds or something.

I'd pay to see that.

[Less Than Liz]

Great, now everyone at work wants to know why I'm laughing.

[Atlas]

I dunno, I guess the thing I dislike most about missionaries is that there's a factor of egocentrism there which is sort of veiled by the fact that they're "doing good work".

When someone's trying to convert you, they're not talking with you, they're talking to you about what they believe. And you can say oh they have balls for talking about what they believe in to people who don't want to hear it. Yeah it takes balls to put yourself out there and risk looking like an idiot or bothering people for something you believe in. It also takes an incredible threshhold for olfactory discomfort to drive a dump truck for a living but I'm pretty sure you've yet to go out and praise your neighborhood trash guy.

Plus, the entire premise of missionary work is that what they believe in is right. And whatever I believe in is going to get me a one way ticket straight to hell, so they need to "save" me. Or at least bolster their numbers.

ETA: Of course this is only coming from the perspective of my own personal reaction to these sorts of encounters. I wouldn't go so far as to say that all missionary work is bad and that it shouldn't be done and cultural/spiritual diversity should be preserved. If it weren't for Catholic missionaries I wouldn't even be typing in English right now, I'd be beating on a tree with a stick and living in a hut made of palm fronds or something.

You make some good points here. Don't think I am not right there with you on the annoyance factor, but I just think there are better ways of handling situations than simply putting the people you verily don't agree with down, or tearing them to shreds.

When I did missionary work, I went to Uganda & Peru. My main mission was to help people. Spreading the Gospel is definitely very important to me, but when it comes to people, I love them and want the best for everyone(i.e. health and wellness).

So Hyde, I don't think that your annoyance is stupid. I just get annoyed when I see someone vengefully disdaining something that is simply not something of critical value and can be handled with civility. I respect you a lot, and despite your lack of belief in religion(purely assuming, you probably do believe in something), is no reason for me not to respect you.

As you said, Inari, simply talking at you will hardly get anybody anywhere, so I usually only talk to people I'm sharing with. So, with that, I am empathetic toward your plights.

[charolastra00]

The way I've always seen it- the people who truly want to help humanity join the Peace Corps, Americorps, work for a nonprofit, do alternative spring breaks, or volunteer the full summer. Interestingly, most people I know involved in those things (as they're all avenues I have pursued) are non religious.

On the other hands, the "missionaries" are made up of a) teenagers in youth groups looking for a fun way to spend a week and claim they did something great to help a village or b) are only doing it to serve their own religious purposes. I'm still waiting to be proven wrong.

[Indigo]

Every religion gets advertised. This is just the Mormon way. And we are WAAAAAY off-topic right now. lets get back to love shall we?

<3

[Atlas]

The way I've always seen it- the people who truly want to help humanity join the Peace Corps, Americorps, work for a nonprofit, do alternative spring breaks, or volunteer the full summer. Interestingly, most people I know involved in those things (as they're all avenues I have pursued) are non religious.

On the other hands, the "missionaries" are made up of a) teenagers in youth groups looking for a fun way to spend a week and claim they did something great to help a village or b) are only doing it to serve their own religious purposes. I'm still waiting to be proven wrong.

Without sounding pompous, I think I may have proven you wrong.

This topic is regarding love, which is appropriate; considering that all my missionary work was done out of love.

[Less Than Liz]

The way I've always seen it- the people who truly want to help humanity join the Peace Corps, Americorps, work for a nonprofit, do alternative spring breaks, or volunteer the full summer. Interestingly, most people I know involved in those things (as they're all avenues I have pursued) are non religious.

On the other hands, the "missionaries" are made up of a) teenagers in youth groups looking for a fun way to spend a week and claim they did something great to help a village or b) are only doing it to serve their own religious purposes. I'm still waiting to be proven wrong.
I love how self-righteous this thread is getting to be. I'm not religious at all, but don't kid yourself; everybody who wants to help others gets something out of it (whether it's personal utility or whatever.) I don't particularly care what motivates people to do good, so long as the outcome actually is a positive for both parties (voluntarily) involved. I could just as easily say that "People who join Americorps only want to put something on their resume/impress people/impose first-world Western standards/whatever."

FYI, it's not up to anyone to prove you wrong. It's up to you to back up your claim.

[Atlas]

This is exactly true... which is why I'm totally under the pursuasion these claims can only go so far.

My character is only partially based off of what I say, but almost totally based off of what I actually do. I understand this, Liz. It is not my intention to show my holy pursuit on a pedestal, but merely to prove the point that at least I have the goal of being sincere in all that I do regarding missions and such... and hopefully to show I'm not full of shit, which I hope I have thus far.

[DrunkSwashbuckler]

Who's horse can get the highest?! Let's find out!!

[Atlas]

Totally not the point, Dreamless. Sigh... lol... Meh, I really don't even care anymore.

[DrunkSwashbuckler]

It's OK, proselytizing of any sort is "holier than thou" by it's very nature. :D

[Atlas]

Well, after looking up that word, I half way agree with you. :D

[Polygon]

Well, this has gone a little of course. I think that both sides have some stuff right and some stuff wrong. Let me first start by addressing the premarital sex will earn you a one way ticket to hell thing, just so I can be somewhat on topic.

I had already posted this, but the forum decided to eat it. Anyhow, FE, I don't know who told you that but but premarital sex will not send one's soul to hell is it were. For starters, heaven and hell are that black and white. There are gray areas in between. I won't go into that but what you might consider hell is not full of fire and brimstone and having premarital sex won't get you there. Premarital sex isn't honestly considered a very bad sin, no where near the likes of murder, rape, or harming a child in any way. I personally don't see it as a huge deal.

Now, as for polygamy. The LDS church does NOT practice polygamy. If you're caught doing so you will be excommunicated. The church you're thinking of is the FLDS church and they are not affiliated with Mormons in any way. When it was practiced it was mainly to help women out who did not have any rights back then. Their husbands were going off to war and weren't coming back. So, certain members would marry them allowing them to keep their land.

Now, on to the Missionaries. I think it's a noble thing to do depending on your intentions. There are people out there that have to idea that the LDS church exists. If you're out there trying to let people know about then great. You just might introduce them to something that will better their lives. However, if they don't want to hear about it then leave it at that. No need to beat a dead horse. If you go out there with the intent to convert people, the you're going about it all wrong. You're simply informing people. It's their job to convert, not yours. Then there are people that go because they were pressured or bribed by their parents which makes me sick. They are out there and they aren't doing themselves or the people they talk to any favors.

You should go on a mission because you want to and you just won't to inform the people who don't know about and want to learn more. Otherwise, you should stay home. I never had the desire to go on a mission so I stayed home. My parents supported me in that decision as did the rest of my family. Now that I'm too old to go, I still don't have the desire. There is a difference between selling and informing.

Anyhow, enough from me. Just remember that the church is not cut and dry like some of you are making it out to be.

[moogle]

Now, on to the Missionaries. I think it's a noble thing to do depending on your intentions. There are people out there that have to idea that the LDS church exists. If you're out there trying to let people know about then great. You just might introduce them to something that will better their lives. However, if they don't want to hear about it then leave it at that. No need to beat a dead horse. If you go out there with the intent to convert people, the you're going about it all wrong. You're simply informing people. It's their job to convert, not yours. Then there are people that go because they were pressured or bribed by their parents which makes me sick. They are out there and they aren't doing themselves or the people they talk to any favors.

You should go on a mission because you want to and you just won't to inform the people who don't know about and want to learn more. Otherwise, you should stay home. I never had the desire to go on a mission so I stayed home. My parents supported me in that decision as did the rest of my family. Now that I'm too old to go, I still don't have the desire. There is a difference between selling and informing.

Anyhow, enough from me. Just remember that the church is not cut and dry like some of you are making it out to be.
You talk about missionary work doing good but at the same time (as I recall) you said that you don't need to be a believer to get into heaven. Why, then, the need for missionary work in the first place? Why not take out the proselytizing altogether and focus on the betterment of humanity?

And you're claiming missionaries are only out there to inform people. Don't go on with that bullshit. They're out to convert as many people as they can. Now, I can understand this from a Christian standpoint. If you really believe that those that aren't "saved" will be tortured for eternity, it would be (in the eyes of the missionary) the greatest showing of humanity possible to convert as many people as possible, and perhaps by any means necessary. But don't try to pretend missionary work is something it's not.

[Polygon]

You talk about missionary work doing good but at the same time (as I recall) you said that you don't need to be a believer to get into heaven. Why, then, the need for missionary work in the first place? Why not take out the proselytizing altogether and focus on the betterment of humanity?

Well, remember what I said about heaven and hell not being black and white? Well, we believe that there is more than one level to heaven. The lowest is reserved for some of the worst sins such as murder, rape, and child abusers. The level up from that is for people that are good people they just don't want to accept the gospel. The highest level is for people that are good people that do accept the gospel. Now, is that the LDS belief structure? I believe it is, but I can't say it is for sure. Now, hell, as you would have it is called outer darkness. That is for people that followed Satan in the pre-exsistence and for sons of perdition who are people that have a full knowledge, not belief, but knowledge of God and then deny it. Not too many people have to worry about ending up there.

And you're claiming missionaries are only out there to inform people. Don't go on with that bullshit. They're out to convert as many people as they can. Now, I can understand this from a Christian standpoint. If you really believe that those that aren't "saved" will be tortured for eternity, it would be (in the eyes of the missionary) the greatest showing of humanity possible to convert as many people as possible, and perhaps by any means necessary. But don't try to pretend missionary work is something it's not.

Now, what I was saying is how it should be, not necessarily how it is. The idea behind it is noble but people don't always practice it that way.

[Inari]

So basically the people who believe in the gospel are just greedy and won't settle for regular heaven. I think I get it.

[Polygon]

So basically the people who believe in the gospel are just greedy and won't settle for regular heaven. I think I get it.

No, that's not it at all. Granted, you can make in ignorant statement like that if you want. The idea is that just because you don't believe in God you aren't going to hell. Would you rather I say that since you don't agree with my beliefs you're going to hell?

Seriously, some people you just can't please.

[Inari]

I think if heaven is full of people who can't take jokes, that might just be hell for me.

[Hyde]

I think if heaven is full of people who can't take jokes, that might just be hell for me.

Hell is France?

[moogle]

Well, remember what I said about heaven and hell not being black and white? Well, we believe that there is more than one level to heaven. The lowest is reserved for some of the worst sins such as murder, rape, and child abusers. The level up from that is for people that are good people they just don't want to accept the gospel. The highest level is for people that are good people that do accept the gospel. Now, is that the LDS belief structure? I believe it is, but I can't say it is for sure. Now, hell, as you would have it is called outer darkness. That is for people that followed Satan in the pre-exsistence and for sons of perdition who are people that have a full knowledge, not belief, but knowledge of God and then deny it. Not too many people have to worry about ending up there.
Okay, well at least you've explained your beliefs. I'm not even going to get into asking how you justify these beliefs (the thread is de-railed enough as it is), but at least I have some idea of where you're coming from.

Now, what I was saying is how it should be, not necessarily how it is. The idea behind it is noble but people don't always practice it that way.
I'm pretty sure that by definition the goal of missionaries is to convert people. Your proposition is just more of a passive approach. You may not want the gospel shoved down someone's throat, but you still advocate converting non-believers nonetheless. Let me just say, there is nothing wrong with trying to persuade someone into accepting your worldview. But be honest about it.

[Polygon]

I think if heaven is full of people who can't take jokes, that might just be hell for me.

Damn. Had I known it was a joke. Sorry, the internets isn't always easy for me to catch humor on.

Okay, well at least you've explained your beliefs. I'm not even going to get into asking how you justify these beliefs (the thread is de-railed enough as it is), but at least I have some idea of where you're coming from.

I'm pretty sure that by definition the goal of missionaries is to convert people. Your proposition is just more of a passive approach. You may not want the gospel shoved down someone's throat, but you still advocate converting non-believers nonetheless. Let me just say, there is nothing wrong with trying to persuade someone into accepting your worldview. But be honest about it.

Fair enough, but I only open my mouth about my religion when there are misunderstandings or when people ask. Like I told you, I didn't serve a mission. I do thank you for your candor.

[Indigo]

I'm done posting here. This is getting ugly.

[JustATemp]

how about everyone stop playing the "well, we had a miscommunication so now i'm going to act like a petty 12 year old" game.

[Cyrus the virus]

Petty 12 year olds would get beat handily. Silly guy!

[Indigo]

I had already posted this, but the forum decided to eat it. Anyhow, FE, I don't know who told you that but but premarital sex will not send one's soul to hell is it were. For starters, heaven and hell are that black and white. There are gray areas in between. I won't go into that but what you might consider hell is not full of fire and brimstone and having premarital sex won't get you there. Premarital sex isn't honestly considered a very bad sin, no where near the likes of murder, rape, or harming a child in any way. I personally don't see it as a huge deal.


I just wanted to say that that is not the reason why I dislike the church. I just hate it that everything is so forceful within it.

[Cyrus the virus]

All sins are equal in the eyes of god, POLYGON.

[Indigo]

All sins are equal in the eyes of god, POLYGON.

Did Blue tell you that? ;)

[Polygon]

All sins are equal in the eyes of god, POLYGON.

Yeah, yeah, I don't buy that. :D

[Jarrid]

*starts singing*

What's love got to do with it? Got to do with it?

[Indigo]

Lol. You're a life saver.