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Priest4hire
08-03-2008, 01:31 PM
Having at last finished playing Vay I have set myself to writing down my impressions of the game just as I said I would. Be warned that while I’ll avoid specific plot references, besides the opening sequence, I still might spoil part of the game. Now then, since the final dungeon was the key challenge of this game I will start there.

Immediately upon entering the final dungeon I noticed that the save feature had been disabled. There are only three dungeons in the game that disallow free saving and this does ramp the tension up a bit. On the first level I was confronted by a series of identical rooms to traverse in order to find the ladder leading up. These rooms were spaced to make keeping track of my location more difficult. The second floor was made up of 27 enclosed rooms in a 3x9 configuration. Each room has to be entered via a door but only one room is real while the rest teleport the party back to the center room. The last floor is a teleporter maze with one duplicate 4 teleporter room tossed in for fun.

This leads to a reasonably difficult boss that I killed off fairly easily thanks to my habitual hoarding of top tier items. This dungeon might have been difficult due to how hard the enemies hit and how unreliable the running system is but that’s undermined by two party restore points: one in the center room of floor 2 and one immediately before the boss. I avoided combat entirely until I discovered the second floor restore point and almost entirely after that. Between the two restore points I had no difficulty reaching the final boss without even coming close to wiping or losing a member in combat. I would rate the final dungeon as moderately difficult but no real challenge to a well stocked and leveled party. Onto the game in general:

Our hero, the crown prince of some generic kingdom, has his bride abducted by mechs during the wedding. Thus kicks off a quest to unseal the armour of Vay, kill the grand Foozle, and rescue the princess. At the same time the game commits the beginner’s mistake of making the protagonist too important a person. After all, what crown prince is penniless and packs the worst weapons and armour his world has to offer? Had he been a pauper his plight would have been as weighty and his quest as heroic and it would have made a lot more sense.

The game itself feels both older than it is and very generic. It’s rather plain for a Sega CD title and it has some oddities for a RPG from 1993. Healing is a great example. There are four levels of healing (by item or spell): weak single, strong single, strong party, and full party. However, the strong single healing item costs 40 times a weak single and often does no more healing. Healing is so randomized that the same character at the same level casting the same weak healing spell has done 26 in one try and 125 in another. The result is that luck plays a significant role and there’s almost no reason to buy or use strong single healing spells or items. Equipment and gold scaling is even stranger. There is armour found in the second to last dungeon that costs about 1/5th of the much earlier stuff and is crappy. There’s also an accessory that gives 20 to defense and agility and costs about 1/10th the price of a 20 defense item and 1/5th a 15 agility item. Gold drops cap out before the endgame and thus the weapons at the last town are ludicrously expensive considering their marginal damage increase.

Then there’s the grinding and boy is there a lot of it. Thankfully there is auto combat and spells that one shot enemy parties. In addition characters are fully restored upon leveling up allowing for self-sustaining grind sessions. I took to listening to a lecture on the origins of the English language while grinding; an indication of the skill level of combat on the whole. The quality of grinding locations is very uneven with some being great and other sucking terribly. There is an enemy base near the end of the game that is awesome for grinding thanks to consistently high XP rewards and enemies that drop fast. After that though it’s almost all suck with too many low XP enemies, magic resistant foes and poor XP to difficulty ratios.

Even boss fights tend to be extended battles of attrition. The hardest boss in the game was the one for the second (of five) orbs. I could barely damage him with weapons, magic did next to nothing, and he had thousands of HP so that it came down to outlasting him with stacks of cheap healing potions and being lucky with the group attacks. He could easily wipe any party out if only his AI wasn’t randomized. I must have died half a dozen times at least while I killed every other boss in one try. Other than that A-hole most bosses come down to finding the weak spot, typically magic, and hitting it with everything the party has.

Add in the occasional cheesy voice acting, generic synth music and badly animated anime cutscenes and there you have it. It’s a solid if unexceptional RPG romp with a fairly generic storyline and gameplay outside the aforementioned oddities. It is grind heavy but thanks to free saving, brainless enemy AI, and simple combat the game is pretty straight forward. For an experienced RPGer like me it really didn’t offer much of a challenge. Well, other than resisting boredom during hour long grinding sessions.

Jarrid
08-03-2008, 03:40 PM
Hmm, first time I had heard of Vay. I have never played a game on the Sega CD. Honestly, I probably would had played the entire game from start to finish. How long did it take you to finish Vay after all of the tedious level grinding, Priest?

Borg1982
08-03-2008, 07:25 PM
For non-veterans like millions of gamers, if they buy this for their iphone, it being the first RPG on the iphone ever, they will not like it at all and barely get far before quitting.

How would you finally rate this game? I'd go 8 because of its superior challenge over hundreds of RPGs.

Cyrus the virus
08-03-2008, 07:29 PM
Sounds a lot like a Wizardry game.

Priest4hire
08-04-2008, 08:18 AM
Yeah, I can see the influence of classic dungeon crawlers like Wizardry in the last dungeon but it's atypical for the game. Every other dungeon is pretty standard for a JRPG. Still, it feels a lot like a RPG from the end of the 8bit period. Like something between Phantasy Star and Phantasy Star II in terms of development. It even uses obscure names for spells like Malybu and Thyxaal. The former makes me expect a car to drop out of the sky onto the enemies.

Honestly, I probably would had played the entire game from start to finish. How long did it take you to finish Vay after all of the tedious level grinding, Priest?

I did play it from start to finish and without any cheats whatsoever. I really wanted to capture the honest challenge of the game. I'm not very certain on the length because I played it off and on over a week and a half or so and the game doesn't keep track. I'd estimate in the 20-30 hour range. It's a very linear game without any free travel method (ship, airship, dragon) at all.

For non-veterans like millions of gamers, if they buy this for their iphone, it being the first RPG on the iphone ever, they will not like it at all and barely get far before quitting.

How would you finally rate this game? I'd go 8 because of its superior challenge over hundreds of RPGs.

I agree that it's very old-school for a game aimed at casuals. I think one would really need the right mindset to enjoy a game like this. Perhaps it was the save anywhere feature that attracted them or it may have just been cheap.

I don't rate games on numerical scales. If I was pressed I'd probably give it a very slight thumbs down. It's a very plain RPG that only once really stood out for me: The second to last dungeon has a Slaughterhouse motif and even features screams in the soundtrack. Other than that it game breaks from the standard only to annoy the player. It hits certain RPG pet peeves of mine as well including enemies that could win if only the AI wasn't smart like rock and new party members that have absurdly low levels. Ironically, the one thing I didn't find to be was challenging. It's honestly hard to believe this game came out in the same year as Phantasy Star IV.

Still, I found it a moderately enjoyable game nonetheless. But only for someone who really wants to play games from that era and has already played all the top tier entries. Or someone who just has to play ever Sega CD/Working Designs game published.

PS. Attached is a screenshot from the second to last dungeon. I think it captures nicely the generic nature of the game, the unusual look of that dungeon, and even the annoying level gap issue.

Cyrus the virus
08-04-2008, 08:28 PM
I like the wall-ginas.

Priest4hire
08-05-2008, 08:46 AM
And they animate. What can I say? JRPGs are practically synonymous with subtle.

Sushi_b
08-06-2008, 10:44 AM
Vay is one of those games I'll eventually get around to playing but just missed out on because I never had a Sega CD when I was younger. I've neglected to pick up some older titles since getting one, but will search far and wide for Vay when I get back.

Priest4hire
08-07-2008, 01:07 AM
One thing I did appreciate was that the monsters had some, if often rather feeble, animation. Compare that to some top tier 16bit RPGs that seemed to think making the monster flash was good enough. It may be my fading memory, but it almost seems that more of the static monster type was seen on the SNES where as the Genesis got more animation. It could be that since Phantasy Star was the flagship RPG series on the Sega end, and it featured animated monsters even in the SMS original, the other developers tended to mimic that.

At any rate I found a copy quite easily and for not too unreasonable a price on eBay. Just remember there's a map when checking them out. While I did have the CD attachment I did not have easy access to games and thus missed this title back in the day.

Sushi_b
08-07-2008, 08:05 AM
I'll be looking into it in the future, probably 3 years from now to be completely honest. I'm just hoping that it won't be too hard to track it down then and the price will be resonable. What did you end up shelling out for a copy Priest, if you don't mind disclosing. I'm guessing in the 30 dollar (CDN) range for a complete copy.

Priest4hire
08-07-2008, 08:20 AM
It was $40. Right now Canadian is almost par with US so it doesn't make much difference. Checking eBay.ca I see the cheapest (buy me) complete copy is $50. (There's also one at $10 and currently un-bid on.) I also see one of my pet peeves; auctions without the map claiming to be complete. I hate that.

Jarrid
08-07-2008, 11:45 AM
Goodness. Quite pricey, but I suppose that is an old school hard to find game for you.